Man Up | Ep. 08 • August 27, 2015
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or over a decade, David Tian, Ph.D., has coached tens of thousands of people from over 87 countries to achieve happiness and success in their dating and love lives.
Once a nerdy, skinny professor of philosophical psychology who couldn’t hold a conversation to save his life, David is now director of Aura Transformation Corp., and a world renowned dating and life coach using therapeutic methods. Dr. Tian has been featured in international media, including AXN, Cosmopolitan, Psychology Today, as well as co-hosting a radio show on national radio and a weekly dating advice column in a national newspaper in Singapore. Formerly a professor at the National University of Singapore, Dr. Tian is actively researching, speaking, and publishing in the areas of philosophy and psychology.
The show, “Man Up: Masculinity for the Intelligent Man,” is David’s way of helping as many people as possible enjoy empowering and fulfilling lives, while contributing to the global understanding of masculinity in modern times. In the show, he takes your questions posed in The Man Up private Facebook group and answers based on his experience Coaching tens of thousands of students around the world for over a decade.
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How Nice Guys Can Attract Women
In this episode, we talk about what you can do if you’re a nice guy to attract women.
Masculinity for the Intelligent Man. I am David Tian, Ph.D., and this is: Man Up.
Welcome to Man Up, this is episode 8. Got a question here from Felix, he asks: My question is, how can a nice guy change his behavior towards women since his attraction destroying behavior has become a strong habit. I can’t tell where he’s from here. But I guess this is – this myth about the nice guy is all pervasive, I’ve been hearing it from all over the world, it’s interesting.
So the assumption here is that the nice guy has attraction destroying behavior. Let’s talk about what a nice guy really is and why his behavior is attraction destroying so that he can stop doing that. So the question is, how can a nice guy change his behavior.
Well, you can just change it. I mean, as far as behavioral change goes, it’s just about instilling a new habit. Like going to the gym on a regular basis when you didn’t go before, you’ve just got to clock it in, make it a habit, make it a priority. Just do it, just show up and do it and make it a habit.
That’s the easiest way, just change your behavior. If you do this a lot, just stop doing this and do something else, like this. It’s not that hard but what he’s really getting at is the psychology of it. It seems like nice guys don’t know how to change their behavior or don’t know what the behavior is that’s attraction destroying.
So here’s the misconception, here’s the big myth about the nice guy: Nice guys – the stereotypical nice guys – let’s first talk about what that is, let’s define that. Most of the people I’ve talked to about this issue say that a nice guy is somebody who does stuff for women, like he’ll go out of his way to help her.
Whenever she calls, he’ll answer the phone and be there for her. In Singapore, it’s very common – If she needs a ride somewhere, to drive somewhere, he will pick her up or take her and drive her. If at the end of the night at a group outing, she asks him, “Hey, can you drive me home?” and she happens to be way across town, he will do that because he is a nice guy.
Other things that nice guys do are help girls with their homework when they ask or girls ask them to. They sometimes have had nice guys pick up groceries for girls when they ask. And girls will say, “Hey, can you get my mail for me?” Or I’ve had – one nice guy actually managed for a girl her eBay account – so that she could sell stuff online. He even met up with the sellers – to negotiate with the sellers and deliver the goods for her.
Nice guys also deliver chicken soup when she’s sick, they buy her flowers. When they come back from trips, she asks, “Did you get anything for me?” and he’ll buy her a gift on the way home. What are other nice guy behaviors – some more common ones are when a nice guy opens the door for women and then gets angry when she doesn’t say thank you. I think you’re getting the idea, right? Nice guy behavior is when they go out of their way to do things for women.
And here’s a good litmus test for whether that’s nice guy behavior or just chivalrous behavior. A nice guy behavior litmus test question is: Would you do this for a guy that you’ve known for that length of time? So nice guys who at the bar gets suckered into buying girls drinks because the girls ask freely, “Would you like to buy me a drink?” and she’s hot and the guy likes her.
Here’s a great question to know if you’re in the right mindset to buy that girl a drink – whether you’re needy in buying her a drink or you’re coming from a place of confidence – here’s the question: If you knew a guy for that long, you’re talking to him for that many minutes or whatever, that length of time, would you buy him a drink? If the answer is no, then if you just met her, don’t buy her a drink. So it’s really easy because all the nice guys I meet – in fact, I lead a seminar that we do at the moment for charity, and it’s called: Nice Guys Finish First.
Maybe we can link that up to this particular video, I have to link that one up. Nice Guys Finish First, if you happen to be in Singapore, come to that and we’ll talk more about that and your specific situation and how to get out of it. But in that event, when I ask guys, “Would you have done that behavior that you did for that girl, would you have done those favors for a guy that you’ve known that long, yes or no?” The answer’s always: no way. And they laugh when they say it because they know the truth. They’re kissing ass!
Here’s the deal – here’s the thing – if you are just a generous guy and you just have all this love in your heart and you just want to give or you are sincerely concerned about her safety. I’ll make sure a girl gets home safely at the end of the night, I’ll buy a girl drinks, I’ll do that because I want all my friends to have fun, so if you’re at my table and you want to have a drink, go ahead, I’m not going to drink the whole freaking bottle all by myself, that’s why we got a whole bottle at all these mixers. I’ll make sure a girl gets home, I’ll hold the door open because that’s what a man ought to do, I’m not looking for a response.
That’s a first inkling but here’s a way of systematically structuring this question: There are five levels of love and I’m just going to talk about the first two – no, let’s talk about the first three. The first level of love is the Needy Love. Now, nice guys have a lot of needy love there. Needy love is the love of a baby, a baby needs milk or whatever and goes, “Waa, waa, waa!” And it’s just looking for milk, right? So there’s needy love and pretty soon after the age of two, three, whatever – you have to move on to the next level of love because people aren’t going to respond to you just fake crying all the time.
So then, level two love is Transactional Love. This is where you give to get. You love in order for her – or you do these behaviors, or favors, or actions that seemingly are nice to get something from her end. In every case, the fake nice guy, the nice guy, the pseudo nice guy – he’s not really a nice guy, he’s not really nice – the nice guy is engaging in a transaction. In his mind, he’s saying: I’m going to do this and if she doesn’t reciprocate with some adoration, appreciation, some favors and love – then I’m going to be pissed, I’m going to be bitter and disappointed, frustrated – whatever negative feeling, right? Because he’s waiting for her to reciprocate and when she doesn’t, he gets angry. That’s transactional love.
Another way of putting that is, it’s like whoring. What’s a whore? So there’s an area in Singapore called Geylang, you can go there and there are legalized prostitution. If you go there and as a man you put down money – there might be some for women too, I don’t know – put down money and the woman gives you sex. It’s very open, in that sense it’s honest, there’s no doubt about what the terms are here. But then outside of that context, everyone’s still whoring.
Just like my high school friend who was a valedictorian for school and in his valedictory speech for high school in Canada, said – it was his closing line – “Now we are whores of society! Yeah!” Because what happens when you go on and get a job you don’t really like? Just for money. You’re a whore. That’s right. So, it’s the same sort of deal.
He is making her into a whore but what he’s doing is saying, instead of financial payment – but sometimes he does give her money, right? – instead of financial payment, he’s doing chores for her. They put in a lot of time and effort and they’re expecting her to pony up, they’re waiting for the other side of that transaction and when it doesn’t come they get bitter, frustrated, and so on – they get desperate. Well they’re already desperate when it starts.
So you understand the neediness inherent in the nice guy, the fake nice guy, the pseudo nice guy – the guy who thinks he’s a nice guy. Because he’s doing all of these seemingly nice behaviors in order to really emotionally blackmail her into liking him and that’s just reprehensible, it’s repulsive. And girls can sense it, sometimes those girls who lack conviction or – everyone kind of indulges sometime in their lives – they like to get these free favors.
Part of the good girls, they will feel bad for taking advantage of these guys but the guy’s doing it, he’s desperate and he’s needy and it’s leaking through and she’s going to take these favors. Because maybe it’s late at night and she doesn’t want to pay 30 bucks in a cab, she’ll take his ride and the guy is actually emotionally blackmailing her, that’s what a nice guy – a fake nice guy – is an emotional blackmailer. They’re not real nice guys, they’re pseudo nice guys.
So what’s the third level of love? It’s not transactional level, transactional love is – by the way, there are many marriages based on transactional love, that’s why many of them end. “Because I’m only going to stay in this relationship as long as I get out of it, what I expect, once I don’t it’s over.” Right? Many people in the world are going to be watching this and be like, “Uh, well of course, duh! That’s love, get real Dave.” I completely understand, I’m a realistic guy, most of the world sucks. Most of the world is stuck there and that’s why I’m not friends with most of the world. That’s why I don’t seek love from most of the world.
Now moving to the next level, a third level, we call that the Unconditional Love. When you give to charity – imagine a guy gives to charity and is like, “I’m going to give to charity but I’m going to get mad if that kid in Africa doesn’t write me a freaking thank you card and sign it himself and send me a photo and get on fucking Skype and tell me, thank you.
I’m gonna be mad, screw that I’m gonna take my money back, I’m gonna be bitter and frustrated and disappointed because I was only being nice in order for her to say ‘Oh, thank you! I like you a lot!’ ” That’s not very nice, is it? So really be a nice guy, the real nice guys – the true nice guys – are actually incredibly virtuous and attractive.
And that’s what Aura Transformation is all about, actually, making men into real nice guys, into really attractive people. By the way, when you get to the third level of love, you feel love when you give it all the time. Who’s in control of whether you give love, you or me? You are! You’re in control of it, imagine that. Imagine that you are in control of the feeling of love, so you can feel it whenever you want just by giving it.
When you become a father – it’s what I’ve been told, as an uncle, I kind of have this indirectly so I can sense that a bit– but when you become a father, you know what it’s like to give unconditional love. Because that child can’t do anything to earn your love, it just exists and you love it. That feeling that you give the child is love.
You don’t even need the child to respond back to you yet and it doesn’t usually it just – and when it does it’s really fun or enjoyful – but it doesn’t have to respond to you for you to feel the love. If the nice guy can understand how he’s emotionally blackmailing women, which is leading to his frustration, if he can understand the dirt of his mental state that’s coming out of his essential neediness, then he’s on step one of actually fixing it. So knowing the problem is the first step to moving on to the solution.
What’s the rest? Well, join Aura Transformation, join the Man Up Movement. Click the link to join our private Facebook group. We post other things on there but you can post your questions and your comments. Follow-up with us, I want to know what you think of the show and your questions. So make sure that you click on the link and join the private group, until next time – man up.