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For over a decade, David Tian, Ph.D. — a uniquely qualified therapist, life coach, and former university professor — has coached tens of thousands of people from over 87 countries to achieve happiness and success in their relationships, dating, psychology, and lifestyle.
Dr. Tian has been featured in international media, as well as co-hosting a radio show on national radio and a weekly dating advice column in a national newspaper in Singapore.
The show, “Man Up: Masculinity for the Intelligent Man” (https://www.davidtianphd.com/blog/), is David’s way of helping as many people as possible enjoy empowering and fulfilling lives, while contributing to the global understanding of masculinity in modern times. In the show, he takes your questions posed in the Man Up private Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/manupcommunity/) and answers based on his experience coaching tens of thousands of students around the world for over a decade.
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What To Say To Get A Girl To Come Over
David Tian Ph.D. reveals when it’s already game over for the man.
David Tian Ph.D. explains the misconception going on in this situation.
In this Man Up episode, David Tian Ph.D. emphasizes why men need to stop offering investment from themselves for nothing.
David Tian: Boom! Stop. In Episode 114 of Man Up, I answer the question of: What should I text a girl to get her to come visit?
Masculinity for the intelligent man. I’m David Tian, Ph.D. and this is Man Up!
Hey! I’m David Tian, Ph. D, and for the past ten years, I’ve been helping tens of thousands of people in over 87 countries find success in love and life. And welcome to Man Up Episode 114. And here I am in beautiful Ubud, and our pool villa in Alila. A cool brand. I stay with them a lot in Indonesia. Anyway, there’s a really cool bathtub and I’m going to show it to you. Maybe I’ll shoot it there. There’s like a lily pond here – I’m walking backwards – cool little pool. So, what’s unusual about this is that there’s an actual pond in the villa. Pretty cool. [LAUGHS]
And here you go, through the bathroom, and check this out. Look at that. I’m just going to shoot it in here. Okay, we’re going to have to enter this bathtub. Okay, so this is pretty unusual; shooting this video in the bathtub. Really cool. Okay, and this is Episode 114, yes, 114. Wow, my face is a little bit dark. Maybe if I sit on this… Yeah, that’s good enough. Okay.
Answering a question here from Jorge from Guatemala. Alright, represent. And it’s a really long question, and I read the whole story, getting to the end of it, it’s about an Australian girl and a lot of details which I will skip. All you need to know is: she rented a studio for two weeks and he was the landlord and they hooked up. The night or so before she left Guatemala heading to a different country in Central America.
And now we get to his question, his question is about texting, of all things. And he says, “We’ve been messaging lately about her coming back to Guatemala. And she was considering it, but to be honest my texting game sucks”, he says, “I really want her to come back to Guatemala, but also I don’t want to appear too needy. I’m attaching our message exchange. I really need your advice on what to write to her to make her come back.”
As soon as a guy thinks that, it’s already game over. He’s already lost. You don’t write something to a girl to get her back. This is still something that’s out there. It just still boggles my mind. Guys don’t get it. Guys don’t get what relationships are really about. People don’t get it. So, there are people who are so easily duped, that if you write some fucking text messages then they will be deceived, and trust you and fuck you. I guess there are people like that. I don’t really know many people like that anymore. I think I did at some point but I don’t remember. Those are really stupid people, and they’re also people that you don’t want to spend much time with because they’re really easily duped. I mean, I can understand if she’s like 14 years old – like really immature and inexperienced in the world that you could trick her.
And then if she’s a good person, she’s going to regret it and hate your guts because you manipulated her. Or you can do it the right way, the way we do it at Aura, which is to be a good person and be honest. Being honest doesn’t mean being socially awkward like most guys think it is, it just means that you don’t deceive and manipulate. So, if she doesn’t like you, even if you tricked her, even if an attractive man with an attractive personality were to communicate over the medium of the phone, and that’s all texting is by the way, it’s not some special thing, it’s just communication over this phone – were then to get her to come back, convince her because she’s attracted to that interaction over the phone, convince her to come back to your country, you still have to have a fucking relationship.
I think one of your misconceptions or misinterpretations of the situation is that there’s a real relationship there, that it wasn’t just a summer fling, and that if you could just be better over text exchange, then she would see the real you and fall in love with the real you. That she’s actually in love or attracted to the real you, but because of your bad texting skills, she’s not able to see the real you. So, I will address that question instead. But you know, when guys ask me, when people think if they could just learn the one or two lines in a fucking text message that will magically make girls suddenly want to come and do their bidding, I’m still really shocked at that. I’m still really shocked that people believe that shit.
But you know, whatever. I know people who sell based on that, but… He says, “My text game is weak. She never told me what she decided in the end, if she’s coming back to Guatemala or not. Advice would be great on how to proceed things beforehand. Hope to hear from you.” Alright, well, thank you. Thank you for asking the question. So then, he proceeded to send – I’m not going to show, there are some privacy issues – but these are text messages she was sending me. Okay, so… Oh, it hasn’t even come to the end of it. Oh, a lot more texting. Okay, right? So, those are all texts he pasted in there.
Alright, and usually, when that happens, the guy’s just like, “Here, look at my text messages. Tell me now what to type. Be me.” Basically, the guy’s saying, “David, be me and write to her so that she will now come back and then I’ll take over from there”, he says. But of course, that never happens. Here’s why: Here’s the bigger message for text messaging. Your communication over text is a microcosm of your interaction ability over a certain medium, this thing, this device. This doesn’t make it special. It’s not like a special communication, really. So, if you’re boring in person, you’re boring over text. And a lot of guys are boring over text. And one of the reasons why a girl will hook up with a guy who’s boring in person is because the environment – she seduces herself, okay? The environment, or her status, or his looks and she’s horny. So, it’s not his personality that’s carrying the day, it’s something else.
But if you have a boring personality, if you have a personality that’s one-dimensional, you’re going to come off bad over text. Who is bad at text? The people who are bad at text, or the people who are bad at conversation and who are bad at humor, and who take things too seriously, who are boring as fuck; those are the people who are bad at texting. That’s just it. There’s no difference between writing down your communication verbally versus saying it, except for a few little tweaks of how to convey certain emotions.
But then, we have emojis, depending on your platform you can have moving, animated emojis or emoticons or whatever. You have lots of different ways to do that. You can even just do it old-fashioned, with like semicolon and like an end bracket thing for a smiley face or winky face or whatever. Also, how casual your writing is, how casual your writing is, will make your personality come across. It’s really just conveying – oh, there’s lots of – oh, there are fish in this pond, by the way. Do you see that? There are fish in this pond. There’s some fish right here. There’s some big ones down there.
Anyway, I got distracted by the fish. You see how my personality…? Like, in the middle of a text message exchange, I’ll just be me and maybe I’ll just say, “Oh, the fish are going crazy here.” Whatever, right? Just be you. That’s the problem. You is the problem, not texting. You are the problem. You is the problem. [LAUGHS] So, I’ll just read out his side of the thing so people can understand, and any girls listening will totally understand this. So, he starts with off with, “It’s going okay. Hey, how it’s going?” “Hey, great”, she says. He says, “Two messages in a row, she answers with one.” Okay, so he’s like, “Nice, was looking at your pictures. Beaches look awesome. Dig your cowboy hat.”
Okay, so you’re already going too far here. You’re like, “Was looking at your pictures.” It’s fine that you’re doing this. Here’s the other thing about being honest, I’m going to be answering this to another question later on, if your inner game is fucked up, if your mindset is bad, then being honest and authentic will just show your needy side, which is fine but it’s not optimal. So, the solution to that isn’t to fake it, isn’t to fake being better than you are. The solution to that is to be better, become better. So in this case, he really was creeping out on her Facebook so he mentions it. Ideally, he’d be much busier with a lot of awesome things going on in his life and wouldn’t have the time to go creeping out all over her profile.
And then he says a whole bunch of stuff about the room he rented out. She says, “Haha. Having a great time. It’s perfect. How are you?” And then he has a long response, and he’s talking about his business. Yeah, these are fine so far. She replies with one sentence, he replies with “That’s cool.” And then a day goes by she says, “Hey, sorry for the short message. Yesterday, I was at a beach club and didn’t read your message properly. Have a good weekend.” Okay, so this is a good example of how she’s being cool. So, she’s leading a great life, and right now she’s so busy she doesn’t even have the time to read your fucking message, fully, let alone reply to it.
Whereas your text messaging, Jorge, is showing that you have a ton of time to creep out all over her Facebook and a ton of time to craft these messages to her. And then in reply, you write a long message, “Have a nice weekend. Beautiful”, that’s how you end it. One day later, precisely 28 hours later, you call her at 1:11 and 1:16 twice in a row. She replies the next day, “What on earth was so important at 2:00AM?” [LAUGHS] So you reply, and this is where you lost it. Well, you’ve lost it at the two phone calls at 1:00AM. You don’t call a girl after 9:00PM unless it’s an emergency; you’re supposed to meet up and you can’t find her.
You don’t call a girl after 9:00PM unless you’re dating her or it’s an emergency. Otherwise, it’s a fucking booty call, and you’re booty calling a girl who’s in a different country. So, you lost it there. And then she says, “What was so important at 2:00AM? Why the fuck you calling me at 2:00AM?” She says, “Don’t you have a life?” Okay, you reply, this is where you put the nail in the coffin, “Hihi, just felt like calling you.” That’s one message. Next message from him, “Can’t blame me for thinking of the most beautiful girl I know.”
Okay, so she’s trying to not make it awkward, so she answers, “Turn it up, hahaha.” That’s a pretty cool response from her. And then you reply with, “Send me a picture of you.” I mean like, that is like one of those creeper Tinder type of, “Send me a picture of you naked.” Like, you didn’t say naked but it’s sort of coming across like… Instead of answering her tone, which is joking, you come back with, “Send me a picture of you.” I mean like, if you’re in a relationship, you can do that kind of thing. You’re not in a relationship. You had her last night in the country hook-up. So at this point, everything else is just you basically trying to convince her to come to Guatemala. She’s like, “No. I’ve got all these plans.” She ends up being very rational at you.
She replies, “I don’t have an endless supply of money. I need to carefully consider all my expenses.” As soon as a girl goes rational like that on you, the attraction’s gone. That means she’s operating in her prefrontal cortex. She’s being logical and rational. Therefore, she’s not feeling, because attraction’s an emotion, so you need her to feel in order to have attraction. You put her in thinking mode, it’s already game over. Now, you’re trying to persuade her through logic and reason.
“Okay, so you don’t have to worry about rent over here, plus it’s really cheap,” and you start coming back with these reasons and trying to persuade her, debate her, convince her, persuade her. And then it really goes downhill, you’ve got multiple messages from you. Here, I’ll just show you graphically. You can see he’s blue, right? These are blue. This is him, okay, so multiple, and then one reply. Right? So like, that’s when it goes downhill. A long reply, here’s what you say and here’s where all your dignity goes out the window.
“So, I’m going to bed now,” when she doesn’t even reply to you. So basically, she’s ignoring you and you’re telling her you’re going to bed. “But I do hope you come back for a while to Guatemala. We don’t know each other too well”, yeah that’s great, reinforce the fact that you guys don’t have much of a relationship, or comfort or trust, “But I would like to change that.” Oh my god. So what are you doing, you going to propose to her now? What is this, like super-formal bullshit? If this is how you speak, I’m sure in your native language you speak differently and it’s a lot cooler. So, I’m definitely granting you that in English, you’re going to… Because I work with a lot of guys in Asia.
When they speak in English, it’s very formal and stilted, but I can see from your earlier texting that you do know how to speak in a more informal way. You go formal here because you’re afraid. And when people are afraid, they go back to this kind of proper English communication which is just not cool and it’s not fun. It’s not emotional. “But I would like to change that. Plus, I’m sure you’re going to have a blast with me showing you around.” Okay, so now you’re offering investment. And earlier I didn’t get into it, but you’re offering lots of investment. Pay attention to cost-worth connection. If you don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about, you got to buy my fucking courses because I go into extreme detail. It’s like three to four hours course, one part of the course of Limitless on investment.
I also covered it in Invincible. I’ve covered this in multiple Man Up episodes. I can’t remember which ones. Maybe at some point I’ll have a free course just on cost-worth investment. But you know, to do proper justice to that concept, I need at least four hours to teach it. But it’s a basic principle of behavioral economics. Cialdini’s classic social psychological book called Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion is excellent on this. There are two concepts in there: commitment and consistency that have to do with investment, but investments throughout the book.
Anyway, coming back to this. So, you’re offering investment. Basically, you’re throwing your dignity out the window. Basically, the way she’s reading it is that you’re begging her to come. You have no value. You’re just offering all this free stuff that she hasn’t earned. All she’s got to do is show up and look pretty and you’ll take care of everything else. That’s basically treating her like a hoe. You’re treating her like a prostitute. That’s how she’s reading it. And there are girls who have no dignity and they just want to use dudes, so they’ll take these dudes up on the offer. You know, like look up the hashtag #tagyoursponsor or girls who go ‘modelling’ in Dubai, right?
This is like that offer you’ve given her. “Hey, come along. I will pay for all this shit.” And I’m going to continue to read. He’s going to show her around and he says, “I have a place ready for you. You don’t even have to pay anything, and I can arrange to have you picked up at the airport. Anyhow, beautiful, it’s up to you. Give this a shot. Have a good night.” And then you continued to ask, “When does your flight to Guatemala arrive?” Okay, now you’re being a little funny. So that’s the next day. No, a day later after that. “Hey, what’s up? You still in Mexico?” Alright, she’s coming back with a one sentence response, just trying to not make it awkward you know. By your texting, I can see that you’re a needy guy like most men. So, there’s no shame in that, right? And at least you’re honest, more honest about it, especially towards the end where you’re like, “I’ll do anything. I’ll take care of you. I’ll pay for it all, just come. I just want you so bad, just come.”
So, at least you’re honest. And you’re needy. I mean, it just happened that last night, she’s just sort of gallivanting around, this Australian gallivanting around Central and South, most Central America at the moment here, a fly-by-night kind of girl right now and you’re trying to nail her down, literally. And so, let me answer the question. I hope the analysis helped. If it didn’t help you, because I know to be direct, I got to… To be direct and to make it clear, a lot of guys, when I’m polite, when I’m really light in loving, guys don’t get it. So, that’s why I got to be more direct. I hope it didn’t offend you or anything, but I think a lot of people can learn a lot from other people’s issues because you’re a step removed from it or many steps removed from it. So, I hope people learn from that.
Don’t offer up investments to a girl who hasn’t earned it. Also, don’t text bomb her and don’t call her after 9:00PM, especially twice in a row. Most importantly, to get better at texting, you have to get better in-person, at conversation, at humor. I can see that you have a sense of humor, Jorge, and it’s simply a matter of owning it. You got to go with it. So, your sense of humor came up towards the end when you were like, “Hey, what time’s your flight?” Like, that’s funny.
You should do that more right from the beginning. Just the way you talk, text that way. Don’t change the way you talk and communicate/converse just because you’re typing it out. In fact, you want to exaggerate it even more to get the emotion across.
Like right now, all you can see is this frame. I keep forgetting that, but my hands are moving. I’m like gesturing because that’s how I talk. I got to remember now to convey the emotion through this screen here, because you can only see here. So, I have to move my head and I have to use my eyes and eyebrows. It’s just a different platform. It’s just a different medium. You don’t change the communication just because it’s a different medium. So, however you talk in person, type that out and try to then look for ways of communicating the emotion more.
So, if it’s a joke, put LOL or put a winky face. Experiment with those. If you speak informally like I do right now, leave out the commas, and the periods, and the punctuations and don’t capitalize, right? I just put it [GESTURES] “Right?” You can just even do that, comma right or no comma right. Leave out the question mark at the end, leave out the period at the end; be casual. Those are different ways of communicating your tone of voice, but nothing should change. If you’re good in person with conversation, there’s no reason why you can’t be good over text.
Now, I notice a lot of guys, and I was just pointing here, notice a lot of guys who are bad, who are asking questions about text messaging is because they suck actually with their sense of humor. So, get a better sense of humor and just own it, believe in it, commit to it. Just say it, just put it out there and let her be offended. Because usually, when you’re making a joke, you’re calibrating with the person’s reaction. You don’t get to see her reaction until she responds, right? Resist the temptation to throw in a too-early LOL or JK or something. Commit to it and you’ll calibrate as you go along.
But if you’re afraid that it’ll be taken offensively, then just follow up with a JK or LOL right away. Not a big deal. So, here’s the… I don’t know if you can see, this is the question. Really long, right? But you ended with texting, I answered about texting. Your real issue is that you’re too needy, actually. And the other thing is, you need a paradigm shift. The paradigm shift here is, you think that your problem is a few lines, and that if she comes back it’ll all be great. No, when she goes back – if she does – it’s a completely different situation. A hook-up on the last day before somebody flies away is a totally different thing than now you’re moving back and having a relationship with a guy.
I mean, look at it even from a guy’s perspective or from a traveler’s perspective; there’s a reason why summer vacation and all of that stuff is sex and all this shit. There’s that Adam Sandler movie where I think he’s a surfing instructor or a scuba diving instructor, and he’s just hooking up with girl after girl because they’re all flying into Hawaii on vacation, so they’re going to hook up with him because it’s vacation and they’ll never have to see the guy again. And dude, you are that dude but you didn’t even know it, and now you’re thinking, “Oh, there’s a relationship out of this.” No, there isn’t.
She’s keeping you long because you’re offering a lot of value that she can take advantage of. You’re not actually getting any attraction and investment from her, so stop offering investment from yourself for nothing, and get a life so that you’re busier than this. You have far too much free time and that’s making you needy. Get a mission, get a purpose in life, pursue that, let that take up a lot of your time as she is taking up a lot of her time, not with you, not thinking about you at all, but leading her life and it sounds fun to her. So, that’s your best bet. That’s the only way you can have a relationship with somebody in the long run that you’re attracted to at this level.
Okay, so I hope that makes sense to you. I mean, the answer to your questions are going to be commensurate. My answer’s going to be commensurate to the length that you asked, so you ask a long question you get a long answer. So, there you go. Damn it, way over, but I’m glad I could answer that more thoroughly. Coming out from you from Ubud, Bali in the bathtub. Join the private Facebook group. You can also see Jorge’s longer question there if you want to, but that’s where you can ask me questions. I sometimes will answer them right in the comments, otherwise I’ll make a video for you. Join the private Facebook group and I’ll see you inside. Until then, Man Up![MUSIC]