Man Up | Ep. 99 • April 13, 2016
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or over a decade, David Tian, Ph.D., has coached tens of thousands of people from over 87 countries to achieve happiness and success in their dating and love lives.
Once a nerdy, skinny professor of philosophical psychology who couldn’t hold a conversation to save his life, David is now director of Aura Transformation Corp., and a world renowned dating and life coach using therapeutic methods. Dr. Tian has been featured in international media, including AXN, Cosmopolitan, Psychology Today, as well as co-hosting a radio show on national radio and a weekly dating advice column in a national newspaper in Singapore. Formerly a professor at the National University of Singapore, Dr. Tian is actively researching, speaking, and publishing in the areas of philosophy and psychology.
The show, “Man Up: Masculinity for the Intelligent Man,” is David’s way of helping as many people as possible enjoy empowering and fulfilling lives, while contributing to the global understanding of masculinity in modern times. In the show, he takes your questions posed in The Man Up private Facebook group and answers based on his experience Coaching tens of thousands of students around the world for over a decade.
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Why Fitness Guys Have A Hard Time Attracting Women
David Tian: Boom! Stop. In episode 99, I answer the question of why fitness guys may have a hard time attracting women.
Masculinity for the intelligent man. I’m David Tian, Ph.D. and this is Man Up!
Hi, I’m David Tian, Ph.D. and for the past 10 years I’ve been helping tens of thousands of people from over 87 countries succeed in dating and relationships and welcome to Episode 99 of Man Up and today we’ve got a question from Darrell.
Well, let me give you a quick background on Darrell. I’m just going to summarize the question. Darrell is a competitive in physique competitions and he’s an amateur competitor sort of like body building but with board shorts and something he has noticed over the past few years while he’s been making this a serious part of his life is that a lot of his role models in fitness and his trainers that he’s noticed have then either become married to or dating girls who are not that hot, to put it bluntly he says. So he’s asking, what’s going on there? Because he said he got into fitness in order to get women.
So he’s asking the question of like, what role does the physique actually play in attracting women? And he feels like his role models and his trainers are batting under their average.
So I’m going to answer that question. So Darrell, this is interesting because I didn’t want to say this before and anything like in any of my programs or anything but something I’ve noticed as well that if you come into…so a lot of guys get into body building and working out with weights in order to become more physically attractive to women.
I think that might even be the majority of guys in the gym got in there because they want to look more physically attractive and it’s not for functional reasons like they want to be able to run farther or lift more but it’s because they wanted to change the way their bodies looked and mostly because of women. Most guys don’t really give a shit what other guys think about their bodies, no heterosexual males anyway.
So I noticed this a lot and I noticed that trainers who get to advanced level or like guys who are competitive in competitions like physique competitions often date women who they wouldn’t have chosen before they started working out, I think.
So here’s what I feel. This is what my hypothesis is after many years of observation and of course coaching professionally is that guys who get into fitness, they often end up like guys who worked really, really hard and sacrifice 10 or more years of their lives in order to make money to get girls.
Like I know a lot of guys who were told by their parents just focus on making money especially with dads just focus on making a lot of money and then worry about the girls later and that means especially in places like Singapore that means the guys are putting off his life in dating and figuring out women in dating and psychology until he’s like 30, 35 years old, 40 in some cases where he’s basically just burying himself in a company job like in finance or in consulting spending 60, 70, 80 hours sometimes a 100-hour weeks for that goal further down the road of like, “Oh I hope now I can make enough money that I can attract a girl and then get married and have kids and settle down.”
And then that’s his life, so that he’s reached the pinnacle because he got married and had kids and hopefully, you’re mature enough to realize by this point now in human history that that’s just total bullshit but maybe you don’t realize that and fitness is another example of that but on a shorter timeline.
So like in one or two or three years a guy will get a body that is noticeably different from what he was before.
He’ll start to get noticed by women in clubs or bars or just walking the street so it happens much faster. And then because you put all this work into the gym you feel like you’ve earned titles that they should just like come to you and be into you just by virtue of your body and that’s just not the case.
They’ll pay attention to you. You’ll get attention and for women who are into muscular bodies which are increasingly more and more because of movies like Hollywood MTV and pop culture had made that gone that way too in the past 10 to 15 years. You can just Google like the difference between Hugh Jackman in his first depiction of Wolverine and Hugh Jackman in his latest Wolverine movie and there’s a huge difference in their physiques. So it just becomes more popular to be more of that like kind of muscular look. So you’re going to appeal to more women in that way.
So I’ve seen this many times in the clubs and the bars and among my friends. So the girls will look at the guy who’s got a great body and kind of get close, so proximity will happen.
She’ll move her group over or she’ll stand near him waiting for him to talk to her and she might even after all that fails and he’s taken too long she might even say something to him, to open up the conversation, a little opener and because the guy who put so much work into his body, time and effort into his body didn’t developed his personality because he got into that in the first place because he wanted to look better to women because he didn’t have the personality to get women in the first place.
So at the end of that, he has hasn’t developed his personality. He has developed his body but he hasn’t developed his dating skills, his social skills, his ability to make people laugh, his humor. He hasn’t developed his humor.
He hasn’t developed to be more laid back, be more easy going, be more assertive, be more adventurous, raising his self-esteem, being more confident – those are all personality traits that all of which attract women and he didn’t developed those nearly as much as he developed his body and because of that when the women does give him attention he doesn’t know what to do with it. He still can’t do anything with it.
So she loses her interest and this is like, male bimbo. So many women just now are assuming if he’s really spent a lot of time in his body, he’s a male bimbo and that’s not attractive. Even sexually it’s not attractive.
Now, there’s always a subset of women who just want to get laid that night like one-night stand in a club and those women will definitely choose, I mean, if she had to choose a better body versus a worse body pick the better body. So there’s still an advantage there but it’s still a numbers game because even if she’s really horny most women don’t go to the club expressly to look for a hook up.
Most of them are open to it if the conditions are right and there’s a small minority who go there expressly to do that but then it becomes a numbers game finding those women. So physique definitely helps. It helps in the first instance of getting attention and women might even open you, start conversations with you on that. They’ll touch you with it. You’ll be up to escalate sexually much easier but you still have to display your personality and they have to be attracted to your mind. Even sexually, the attraction happens in the mind.
So it’s the mind and body that attracts women. Guys who put all of their chips on to the basket of the body and forgetting about the fact they have this mind, that women need to be attracted to the mind as well are shooting themselves in the foot; so make sure you balance in that way.
So guys who start out before they develop their bodies, who start out with bad personalities, who start out not knowing how to attract women through their words, through their eye contact, through their tonality, through just the way they move; so body language, eye contact, tonality, and then of course the personality of being funny, adventurous, and so on. If they didn’t have that before they got into the physique then after they start working out and they get a great body they still don’t have that and they still need it.
So no matter what you still need that and it’s like rich guys. Rich guys who devote 10, 15, 20 years of their lives to getting rich because they think that that will get women, they will get love. It doesn’t get love, it gets gold diggers. It gets attention because you can buy attention. If you have the money it’s easy to buy a million dollar car and just roll it down the street and get all these people looking at you. You get attention.
You can get attention through buying a damn train in the club with the sparklers and everyone looks and the girls want to be part of it because they want to get the attention themselves and they want to get the free drinks, so that’s easy. But at the end of the night when it’s time to go home, you want to go and have sex with them you’ll notice that a lot of the girls will beg out or they’ll just suddenly disappear except for the gold diggers and the one-night stand type of girls, the slutty girls with just a modicum of games so to speak, you would have gotten anyway.
Well not the gold diggers but the ones who are down and now, it’s like all of the guys who are playing the club game basically playing into the clubs and bars and societies, bullshit stuff about status, they’re all fighting for that little strata of girls who are just slutty – the one-night stand type girls because they’re just looking for that. They’re not looking for connection or the mind or anything.
But the majority of girls if it’s beyond the one-night stand they want to see that you have a mind worth interacting with, of connecting with and that’s regardless of your money and your body and there’s a great book on this by Geoffrey Miller called The Mating Mind. If you haven’t read that, it’s very good, worth studying, pretty well-written as well.
So guys who are into fitness, you know what happens is the second thing I want to say is that they polarized because the bodies then will turn off a subset of women who are more into the effeminate look and places like Thailand, the high society, the high-cultured, high-born women are going to be more into that like effeminate, metro-sexual look where they put makeup on.
It’s sort of like what you see in the boy bands in Korea and same in Korea. Ironically, Thailand and Korea both places the capitals of cosmetic surgery in Asia. There are high-cultured girls who go more for that effeminate look and so in Thailand the guys who jack up their body like who look muscular right now anyway are mostly gay men and a lot of guys who do more Thai but that doesn’t get you muscular it gets you lean; so more of a Manny Pacquiao kind of look but the muscular look is at the moment just still mostly among gay men. So it’s polarizing that way.
Now in most of the western countries it’s polarizing in a good way so that majority of women like that and like the muscular guy and it’ll be good because what happens with the trainers and these competitive guys is because if they didn’t develop their personalities and they just sort of stand there and they’re still themselves; so when they’re comfortable and when they meet somebody that they have a lot in common with they can relax and be themselves and they’re at their most attractive at that point.
So what’s going to happen is they’re going to end up dating other fitness girls. They’re going to end up dating fitness girls. Girls who are into building their physiques and they’re sort of like their female counterpart most of the time who have devoted as much time into fitness and health as the guys has and because that’s natural, they’ll naturally have a lot to talk about and a lot in common.
So that will happen, you polarize with your body. Now, the reason why there are some guys with great bodies who have great game in the sense of like they’re able to make people laugh, they got a great humor, great wit – you can develop these things. That’s what my company does.
That’s what I’ve been doing for over 10 years – helping guys develop humor, wit, self-esteem, self-confidence, assertiveness, being adventurous, being easy going, various attractive traits and then of course the techniques and strategies around those things that takes a guy from being awkward into being smooth and knowing what to say and knowing how to lead women into her dream interactions, her dream dates and it’s important to understand how you polarize it. I think a lot of fitness guys don’t realize that.
I think they just think, “Oh girls like a muscular body.” But they don’t realize not all girls like muscular bodies and the ones who do, the ones who do very strongly may not be the type of girls that you wanted at the beginning which is okay. We change our taste over time but realize that if you’re getting into fitness now is a relatively new thing.
If you just put all your time and effort into fitness into your body after a couple of years of that you’re going to come out at the other end and be mainly only appealing to like women who are also that much into fitness and health. So if that’s cool with you then go for it.
That’s a natural way to do it but if you want to be appealing to a wider variety of women, maybe women who work more on a corporate setting or in art like art gallery-type of girls or fashion or models, fashion models not just fitness models then you’ll need to broaden your skill set and be able to interact and appeal to and flirt with, banter with, connect with most importantly to women outside of those who would be interested in your body into that type of muscular body.
So that’s what I would say. So those two things that’s polarizing and also that it’s like the rich guy who’s just focusing on this one area not realizing that women are looking for a lot more of other things, the total package and neglecting their social and dating intelligence. So develop your social intelligence, I’ll leave you with that.
Okay men, so this is Episode 99 of Man Up, the next one will be 100. This is David Tian signing out.
I’ll see you next time, until then. Join the private Facebook group. Click on the link, join the group. We approve requests every day. Join the group, that’s where you can ask me your questions.
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