Man Up | Ep. 159 • December 12, 2016
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or over a decade, David Tian, Ph.D., has coached tens of thousands of people from over 87 countries to achieve happiness and success in their dating and love lives.
Once a nerdy, skinny professor of philosophical psychology who couldn’t hold a conversation to save his life, David is now director of Aura Transformation Corp., and a world renowned dating and life coach using therapeutic methods. Dr. Tian has been featured in international media, including AXN, Cosmopolitan, Psychology Today, as well as co-hosting a radio show on national radio and a weekly dating advice column in a national newspaper in Singapore. Formerly a professor at the National University of Singapore, Dr. Tian is actively researching, speaking, and publishing in the areas of philosophy and psychology.
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David Tian: Boom! Stop. I’m David Tian, PhD. And in this video, I answer the question: Why she dumps you when you delay marriage. Welcome to Man Up Episode 159.
Masculinity for the Intelligent Man. I’m David Tian, PhD., and this is Man Up!
Hey! This is David Tian, PhD, and welcome to Man Up Episode 159. For over the past ten years, I’ve been helping hundreds of thousands of people in over 87 countries attain success in life, love and happiness. I got a question here from Khan. This is actually another breakup recovery question. There’s so many of these. I finally put out that course, the free video course, that you can access on How to Recover from a Breakup, and you can do that simply by joining the private Facebook group. Once you get inside the private Facebook group, click the pinned post, tap the pinned post and you’ll see the link to the free video courses.
Alright, so helping out Khan here. I’m going to read out the question.
“Me and my ex-girlfriend of almost four years broke up 40 days ago. We’re both 25 years old. She started dating another guy exactly one week later and she seems so happy. So four years ago, a week later dates another guy. The reason that we broke up was she wanted to get married right now, and I asked her to give me two more years because I’m going to graduate and currently I have no stable job since I’m a full-time student and I need to start saving money.”
“I kept saying that, “Just give me some time. That’s all I need.” It’s really weird. There’s no reason to rush into marriage at all, in the modern world, but there’s also no reason to delay marriage because of financial reasons. And here’s why. Marriage is simply a certificate, and you can be married but not live together. Even if you don’t see any reason to get married – if you’re not living together – then you can still propose. You can still get engaged. So, if she needs to see a sign of commitment from you, because maybe you’re not being very independent or initiative-taking and you’re holding off, you’re asking her to wait two years before she gets a sign of commitment from you.
There’s so many of these very old-fashioned guys who think that they need to have everything settled before they can tell the girl, “I’m committing to you and that I’m in it for the long haul.” She just wants a token. So, get her a promise ring. You don’t even need the promise ring. You can buy something affordable as a promise ring. It doesn’t have to be a diamond. In fact, I really recommend you never buy a diamond at the current moment. And then you can still get engaged.
I mean, just the whole point is, she wants to see a sign of commitment from you. Anyway, I just wanted to make that clear. Khan, you sound like an old-fashioned person. I don’t know what country you’re from, but I assume it sounds like some place in Asia. Because usually old-fashioned people are in non-Western places. It doesn’t have to be that you have to have everything ready to go.
If that’s the only reason, then that’s a stupid reason. There are many good reasons to delay marriage, but finances is not one. The only difference between the way you are now and marriage is a piece of paper, legally, like a legal status, and possibly if you attribute – or if you attach marriage to living together, in which case… If you’re living alone and not with your parents, it would probably be cheaper to share a place with somebody else.
It depends on your situation. Maybe you’re in a room with a bunch of roommates or housemates, in which case it would probably be a little bit more expensive to share a room or house with your fiancée or your wife. But you can always get engaged or pre-engaged with a promise ring, where both of you exchange promise rings, or some token, just to let her know you’re in it for the long haul because that’s all she’s really asking; that there’s an intention to be married.
You’re not going to be like, “Oh, let’s get married and get married right then and there” like you’re going to Vegas or something. I’m assuming she doesn’t think that. There’s this weird thing around guys thinking they need everything. There are a lot of guys that I coach who are dating women who are in their 30s, and these women in their 30s don’t have time to fuck around. They want to have babies. They’ve been sacrificing their 20s to their career, or sometimes to clubbing, and now they want to settle down and have babies and their biological clock is ticking.
If this guy is not going to commit, and then he breaks up with her and she’s 33 now, she’s doesn’t have that much time to pivot, so she’s just looking for confirmation that you won’t just dump her when she’s used goods, when she’s old. So, just show her some sign of commitment. She’s not asking for you to actually get married right then and there. You could have a two-year engagement if necessary, just for financial reasons. If it’s practical. You can get the piece of paper if it’s that important to her, and if it makes sense to you, but you don’t need to then get into some kind of financial situation.
Marriage and finances don’t necessarily have to be there. There doesn’t need to be any change in your financial situation to actually be married. The two of you can actually continue the same dating relationship, but just have this piece of paper that says you’re married. If you just move in together, that’s one thing, but you can move in together without getting married. So marriage, in and of itself, there’s no tie necessarily to any financial commitment. Well actually, once you get married of course, legally, so there.
There are many reasons why you wouldn’t get married, but not having enough money should never be a reason. Having too much money is a good reason not to get married, but not having enough money is never a reason to avoid marriage. Let’s just make that clear. Let’s just be practical here and turn our brains on. And I know I can already see in here all these losers coming on YouTube and saying, “Oh no, you should only get married if you have money.”
Fuck that. I’m going to ignore those people. Just turn your brain on and think about it. Marriage is simply a certificate with legal status. And if you have no money, there’s actually no risk at that point in time. So, obviously, there’s a risk down the line if you get divorced, and that’s a good reason to not get married, but that is not the reason you are citing here. You’re citing the fact that you haven’t finished school. It doesn’t fucking matter.
Another one is the best reason is, you don’t know what the fuck you’re doing. You’re 25 years old, both of you, so you will probably make a bad choice. But you didn’t mention that either, so the fact that you’re still a student has nothing to do with marriage. You can get engaged, and you can break an engagement anytime. There’s no legal repercussions to it, whatsoever. Make the bitch happy because she’s just worried.
Let me explain this to you why marriage is so important for some of these girls. “I kept saying ‘just give me some time, that’s all I need.’ We were so happy and she used to say, “I love you so much and we are meant to be.” But I’m still in shock. I don’t know how she can start dating another guy after a long-term relationship, and two days before the break-up she was saying how much she loved me, but after that she didn’t even let me see her. I’m trying to move on even though I love her so much, but I can’t sleep at night and every day I have to go to stalk her picture with a different account and sometimes it kills me.”
Dude, you need some support. First of all, go to the Man Up Facebook group, Khan, click the link to get the free video course. Get the free video course on breakup recovery. You need that bad right now. You know that you shouldn’t be stalking her. It’s just going to make it so much worse.
“I also lost 45 pounds and I work out every day.” First of all, whatever workout you’re doing, you got to stop that workout because you’re losing 45 pounds I’m assuming since the breakup, which was 40 days ago. You lost 45 pounds in 40 days? Dude, that’s very unhealthy. First of all, you need to eat. You need the breakup recovery course. You also need some actual support.
At this point, if you’re in school, go to your university clinical psychology clinic. It should be very well-subsidized for students. Back in the day when I was a student, it was 10/15 dollar co-pay for students, because the university will always force you to have some kind of insurance plan. And if it’s in the university context, they will serve their students very well. So if you’re a student, go to the psychology clinic. You got to get healthy. You need support here.
He says, “But it just don’t get better. My mind is killing me.” He’s asking, “Is she really happy right now?” She might be happy right now, but whether she’ll be happy later… The first thing that pops in mind is, “A four-year relationship breaks up 40 days ago.” You said another guy exactly one week later. I’m assuming one week later after breakup? Either way, she either hooked up with another guy, seven days or 33 days after your four-year relationship ended. This just sounds like a rebound.
A lot of guys forget about the rebound. Here’s what happens. You 25 year-olds, everything is feeling. Love is just a feeling for you. It’s not an action. It’s not a commitment. It’s nothing like that. For you, it’s just a feeling, and that’s why you must watch the keynote talk I just gave. We’re posting the video. I think we’re going to call it The Reality of Women, Sex and Relationships. Something like that. It’ll be in the same YouTube channel, so it should be pretty easy to find.
It is a longer talk that’s much more detailed, and it has slides with it and everything. Go watch that, because one of the things that’s causing you so much pain is that you have this naiveté around relationships and sex and women. So, what she believes as a relationship is this fleeting feeling of love. And feelings are fleeting, so she might love you this one week, and then because you didn’t commit to her, she switches over and is looking to start over because she’s in a panic mode. She’s demanding for this commitment from you, you’re not giving it, so she’s shifting over to get another relationship going.
And in the moment, that new relationship, just the fact that it’s new, is going to have butterflies in the stomach and this fresh novelty. But because it’s not going to be satisfying because it’s a rebound, there’s no way somebody could be over a four-year relationship in a week or even in 30 days. It just doesn’t make sense, unless towards the end of the relationship you’ve just been dragging it out. So it’s like break-up, get back together, break-up, get back together, and maybe you had like three or four breakups in the past year and this is the last straw.
Then I might be able to see that genuinely this relationship she’s having with this new guy might last. Otherwise, there’s no way this relationship with the other guy is going to last. Don’t worry about it. I know it’s killing you right now, but just realize that that’s a ticking time bomb right there with her. That relationship will not last.
And if it goes kind of long, she’s not actually going to be fulfilled on that. She’s actually just trying to fill the void that you left because you guys broke up. She’s used to having a guy there. She’s used to having you, so she’s going to look for somebody to fill in that role, to replace you because she misses you. Maybe not you in particular, but the role that you filled in her life. She’s trying to find a quick replacement for you, but rebounds are always just based on feelings, and feelings are fleeting. She’s trying to get that feeling back of the initial relationship she had with you, but it’s fleeting. That’s the problem with rebounds.
I wouldn’t worry. As far as the two of them getting married after – that might happen if you had like a salad-stage, you had many break-ups where there were trial separations. In which case, your mind would’ve already gotten used to the breakup so that this was the last straw. But if this is your first real break, it’s just a rebound. Now the thing is, knowing that – that helps a little bit of a palliative there, but the underlying issue is trying to understand why women press for marriage.
I wasn’t planning on calling the episode that, but maybe I will, because the underlying point is, “Why would they do this?” And I’m trying to explain it to a guy – it’s hard to understand for guys, because guys don’t have this connection to a long-term relationship; like it means a lot to them. It doesn’t. And I think as a man, I’m going to temper my earlier comments on marriage. You should be very, very careful with that if you think that you will have more earning power over time than she will. Because if the divorce happens, and it’s more than likely that it will given the current statistics, you will lose out just in the way that the law currently is.
So, you want to tread very careful with that. However, let me help you understand from the woman’s perspective what this means. Evolutionarily, there’s a much higher risk to women in getting pregnant with the wrong guy. If the guy abandons her and she’s got nine months now of extreme vulnerability – and remember, we’re evolved for life a hundred thousand years ago. The evolutionary lag, right?
So back then, if she made the wrong choice, she’s defenseless and now dependent on other people to help her out. And then when she has the baby, she’s still defenseless in many ways because of this little baby, she has to take care of that. And even in the modern world, you know how tiring it is to take care of a newborn. There’s all of that, and that’s built into the woman. Women are very sexual. I covered that in Reality of Women, Sex and Relationships. They’re just as sexual and just as sexually stimulated as men are. And in fact, maybe more so physically.
But they also have deep inner drives to be in a committed relationship. That’s why I call it, she wants to eat her cake and have it too, and I started part of the talk with that. So, understand what it’s like. I’m going to give you an example.
Imagine you’re in a relationship with a woman for four years and you haven’t had sex because she keeps saying, “Just wait until we get married.” Or she puts off some excuse way down the line. And then finally after four years, you hit your last straw and you’re like, “Okay, come on. When are we going to have sex?” And she says, “Wait two years. Wait two years until I’m ready.” And she gives some excuse. “Wait two years until I’m finished with school and then I’ll be ready. I’ll feel like I’m really grown up and I’ll be an adult. Give me two years.”
And you’re like, “I waited four fucking years to stick my dick in you, four fucking years to have sex with you. Forget it.” And you get so fed up, because after these four years, you’ve been waiting, waiting, waiting. She said no, so then you break it off and you go and try to fuck another girl. And it’s new, it’s fresh, honeymoon stage. You know, you’re just trying to try it again, but it’s not really about that new girl; it’s a rebound.
Anyway, the point is: a lot of this is sex, like guys really want it, right? So a woman, when she’s in, living in her prefrontal cortex – I covered this in Reality of Sex, Women and Relationships – not when she’s sexually aroused, but when she’s in her prefrontal cortex and thinking rationally, she will be thinking about, “Where is this going? What’s our status? Where is this going?”
That’s the normal thing. Now, in very modern times, very recently in the hook-up culture that’s happened literally in the past 20 years – 20 years out of a hundred thousand, or millions of years, or hundreds of thousands of years for homo sapiens history, as a tiny blip in human history, right? So in the past 20 years or so, in hook-up culture, women have been living more like single men through their 20s and many of them are not pushing for marriage. But in your case, Khan, clearly your woman is and I’ve still seen that a lot, especially in Asia. They want to see this commitment, that there’s some reason to invest in this rather than hooking up with that other hot guy that they just saw at the bar.
There has to be some reason why they would invest in you after all the butterflies in the stomach disappear. And if you don’t give them that reason or that hope, and if you don’t commit and you give them a long time, like two years – it’s just like you’re not going to wait two years to have sex. I mean, you might wait, but it’s very tempting not to and you might get very impatient and fed up after four years of waiting, and she says two more years.
It’s almost like that story in the Bible, the indentured servitude. “I’ll set you free as a slave, but give me seven more years.” Seven years pass and he’s like, “Give me seven more years and I’ll set you free as a slave.” And you get fed up. For a woman in her calm, rational state, she will be thinking about the long term because it’s in-built in their evolutionary adaptation. So, that’s the norm. They actually have to fight against that and make a conscious choice to not look for that.
But their norm should be, because it’s evolutionary adaptive, to look for a guy who will be there when the baby gets popped out. Not necessarily the guy who actually impregnates her – it gets more complicated later on – but a female ought to be programmed to find a male who will invest well because her well-being and the future of her offspring depend on that in many ways. It just makes sense.
So, I’m trying to explain to you why that was such a big deal for her and why it was a deal breaker for her after four years of investing in you. And by four years, those initial feelings of the honeymoon period are going to be over. But you’re needy. Now you’re needy as fuck, the one up, one down dynamic that I cover in that free talk that you really need to get on The Reality of Women, Sex and Relationships. Go and find that on our channel.
That one up, one down dynamic; she’s in the one up position, you’re in the one down. You get needy, she’s ready now to move on and she’s now in the power position in terms of her emotions to move on and she does so. And then she’s trying to fill that void that you used to have, the role that you used to have to fill that emptiness now with another relationship, and that’s what’s happening.
Explaining that to you doesn’t really make it that much easier what you’re going through. But get the breakup recovery course I’ve got in the Man Up group and go through that step-by-step and get that under control. But really, I think given the fact that you lost 45 pounds in 40 days, and that you’re super depressed, I really think – and you’ve been stalking her through different accounts. That means you got to log out of your current account, log into a different account.
The mindset behind that, I understand you got to get some support. Go to your psychology clinic at your university and see a therapist about it. Even just talking it out is going to be super helpful and having a more mature ear, a professional ear, to walk you through and discuss with you; just ask you the right questions and get you to think and reflect. Super important.
So, do that. I’m going to end off again. I got to remember to summarize. Khan, get the breakup recovery course because you’re in some deep waters right now. Second, go watch the free talk I gave on The Reality of Women, Sex and Relationships. Third, understand that this is a rebound, very likely a rebound relationship for her and not something that totally undermines what you had for four years with her. Fourth, understand that feelings are fleeting and that as long as you depend on feelings to sustain your long-term relationship, the relationship will fail.
You need to find a woman who understand that, who is mature enough to understand that. Five, understand why the type of women you’re looking at, the old-fashioned type of woman, why marriage and commitment in the long run and something – there’s going to be an end to her investment, like a return on it, is so important to her. And I use the analogy of sex for men. So, that kind of summarizes it for you. This is a longer video than I expected to have, but there you go.
Join the private Facebook group, also watch the free talk I’m putting out on The Reality of Women, Sex and Relationships. Until then, I’ll see you inside the private Facebook group.
Join the group, click the link, join the group, tap ‘Join the Group’, after you click the link. And I’ll see you inside. Until then, Man Up!