Man Up | Ep. 10 • September 10, 2015
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or over a decade, David Tian, Ph.D., has coached tens of thousands of people from over 87 countries to achieve happiness and success in their dating and love lives.
Once a nerdy, skinny professor of philosophical psychology who couldn’t hold a conversation to save his life, David is now director of Aura Transformation Corp., and a world renowned dating and life coach using therapeutic methods. Dr. Tian has been featured in international media, including AXN, Cosmopolitan, Psychology Today, as well as co-hosting a radio show on national radio and a weekly dating advice column in a national newspaper in Singapore. Formerly a professor at the National University of Singapore, Dr. Tian is actively researching, speaking, and publishing in the areas of philosophy and psychology.
The show, “Man Up: Masculinity for the Intelligent Man,” is David’s way of helping as many people as possible enjoy empowering and fulfilling lives, while contributing to the global understanding of masculinity in modern times. In the show, he takes your questions posed in The Man Up private Facebook group and answers based on his experience Coaching tens of thousands of students around the world for over a decade.
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Can We Ethically Date Multiple People?
In this episode, I talk about how to handle the question: “How many women have you slept with?”
Masculinity for the Intelligent Man. I am David Tian, Ph.D., and this is: Man Up.
Okay, welcome to episode 10. Episode 10 – big milestone. All right, here we go. It’s a question from Michael, it’s in two emails. I’m going to read it out: First of all, hey, love what you’re doing with Man Up. So, hey, good props man. Here’s the question: How do you set up dating multiple women i.e. a dating lifestyle where you’re looking for your 10 without coming across to women like a player or a douche bag. So, how do you set up dating multiple women without looking like a player? How does that conversation go?
There’s more info on this, which is important. I’m dating educated, enlightened women and it always comes up you’re dating several people at once. I’m not physical with them all, but with some, yes. My dating objective is to get to know great women, searching for my partner-in-crime versus just dating to get laid. Ultimately, my strategy isn’t about notches on my belt but about dating women. Getting to know them very well and screening to find my 10. I don’t want to date one by one. If I wasn’t physical with anyone, it would be less of an issue. However, being physical is a huge part of connecting for me and being a good match.
Thanks and I ask for a little bit more clarification, comes back with, how does a “real man” handle the sexual history question with women? I’m talking real educated, sophisticated women not club chicks. It strikes that me that these women want to know on some level that you’re not a douche bag/womanizer/just going to use them for sex. How many women have you slept with? Do you typically sleep with women on the first date? – That sort of question. And here’s the doozy: how do you be vague with integrity?
All right, Excellent, Michael. So that last question – it was really good that we get to the end of that. How do you be vague with integrity? In Aura Dating Academy there are – or Aura Transformation now – there are three guiding values. Relatively speaking, I don’t talk a lot about what your values ought to be.
I just talk about how to think about values but I don’t moralize for you. As far as how we run things in the organization, there are three guiding values and those are authenticity, dignity and courage. Authenticity, dignity and courage. Up in there, somewhere like integrity, here’s the deal: If you have integrity, then why would you ever need to be vague? Here’s why I love this question and really wanted to address this.
Because I think a lot of guys suffer from this and it’s not just Asian guys in Singapore that might have been raised in a conservative environment. It seems like at least 90% of the guys I know, or talk to or see on Reddit or whatever, are suffering from this. It’s like an age old problem; it’s like the Madonna-Whore Complex – something we can talk about in a future episode, maybe.
But this issue of – here’s some desires I have, and he lists them for me, right? Because he feels like he can talk to me about it because whatever reasons, right? And those involve women. I want this from a woman, I want that but I don’t want them to know. So I want to be vague but I want to have integrity.
Here’s the deal with integrity and authenticity, okay? In order for you to be authentic, you have to be transparent. So if you’re not willing to be transparent, if you’re hiding stuff then obviously there’s some stuff you’re doing that’s dirty and shameful for you. Shame and guilt – shame is different from knowing that you have something wrong.
Shame always involves other people. Like a shame culture, you only feel bad about that when other people find out. So in that sense, it lacks integrity. Having shame lacks authenticity, lacks integrity. Integrity is when you have – it’s like integers, when you have one thing and another thing and they are integrated.
Right now, Michael, you’re not. You’re actually being more of a douche bag than guys who you think are douche bags.
Give you an example; let me break down the question. Dating multiple women – starts off with dating multiple women, as if this is a bad thing. By the way, women do this all the time with guys because they don’t want commit with a guy until they can trust him.
How can they trust him? They can’t trust him unless they’ve seen him multiple times, right? So it’s just normal now. We’re not living in the 1700s where you have to go court women and ask mom and dad permission to see them in the drawing room or something.
It’s now – people are independent, they have the freedom to choose so it makes sense that you would date multiple people at the beginning of a relationship. It’s important for them to know this as well, that you’re not committing fully to it. If you are going to enter a relationship where you have an inkling that that person thinks that you’re now exclusive, you need to have them more upfront and having more integrity being less vague from the very beginning.
Dating multiple women, he thinks this is a problem, doesn’t want to date them one by one – I assume because it’s not efficient. Just like why women won’t date men one by one. By the way, because women know this sort of thing about you guys, they’re going to lie to you.
Because they know they’re going to be judged so they lie to you. I don’t judge them – me and Aura Transformation don’t – we try to refrain from things like this so they’re much more open with how they really feel with what they’re actually doing. But the end of this first email is: It would be less of an issue, however being physical is a huge part of connecting for me and being a good match.
Well, hey, if that’s true then why are you hiding that? If that’s true then that’s your very reason for connecting. You’re looking for a good match – that’s a good thing. You’re, as you say, you’re looking for your 10, your partner-in-crime and you’re not just dating to get laid. So it’s a great thing, you’re good to go.
And your problem is that you have a whole set of value judgments about sex, really. He’s an older guy, elsewhere, he says he’s in his early 40s. So maybe you were raised in – you’re not that old man –maybe you were raised in an area of the world and in a time where sex was sinful or viewed as something bad, evil.
You probably will end up – if you don’t address this – end up just having really bland sex with your partner. It’s a huge part of connecting for you – that’s a great thing. You just tell people like how can you know whether you should commit to this person if a huge part of connecting with them is getting physical with them? So you’ve got to get physical with them. So it’s just being obvious – it’s obvious that you should just be open and transparent with who you are with every girl. You should even be talking about this on your first date. How do you connect with people?
You just tell her how you connect is physical. It’s just something you learned about yourself, it’s in your DNA; it’s just something about who you are. Right now you’re very skeptical and so on about the type of women that you want to go full in on, in other words like you want to invest in. So you’re playing a strategy – that is an intelligent one – which is to date multiple women until you find one that is going to be worth your time to go full in on and invest completely in. And it’s just a normal thing – completely rational.
Here’s the guilt thing: Very likely you’re so afraid and ashamed of your sinful, carnal desires – having to do with sex, okay – that you’ve messed up the connection of I’m having sex emotionally. That’s how you connect with a woman versus sex being a sinful, dirty thing. So you’ve conflated those, don’t conflate them.
Realize that that’s perfectly fine, it’s perfectly okay – it’s actually a good thing to connect to women sexually. Now you just tell them that. That that’s something you need to do in order to know whether you connect with a woman. Put it upfront because very likely you’re not doing that.
Because you’re afraid, you’re afraid they’ll leave you, you’re afraid they’ll judge you. Well look, if they judge you that’s a good thing. It all starts with a lack of integrity. You lack integrity. And you want to be vague to hide your lack of integrity. Here’s step one to actually being a man of integrity: Say what you mean. Right now, here’s where you are in life, say it. If they judge you, then they’re not right for you.
Now if you’re judging yourself, you’ve got to deal with that. That’s why we start with values. What are your values, Michael? What are your values? Whatever your values are, live by them. Stop doing things in secret and hiding in the dark closet, okay? Stop closeting yourself. Have value, have real integrity. Your last question sums it all up, how do you be vague with integrity, you can’t. And still have integrity, you can’t. Have integrity. Decide what your values are and stick by them.
All right, that’s it – a little harsh love for you there. Make sure – for the guys who have other questions – make sure you and everyone should please have questions, I know you do. You can rip me apart, totally cool with that. Go to the link, click the link underneath. Go to the Facebook group, post your questions there. Vote up the ones that you like. I’ll see you in the next Man Up.