Man Up | Ep. 229 • March 5, 2018
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or over a decade, David Tian, Ph.D., has coached tens of thousands of people from over 87 countries to achieve happiness and success in their dating and love lives.
Once a nerdy, skinny professor of philosophical psychology who couldn’t hold a conversation to save his life, David is now director of Aura Transformation Corp., and a world renowned dating and life coach using therapeutic methods. Dr. Tian has been featured in international media, including AXN, Cosmopolitan, Psychology Today, as well as co-hosting a radio show on national radio and a weekly dating advice column in a national newspaper in Singapore. Formerly a professor at the National University of Singapore, Dr. Tian is actively researching, speaking, and publishing in the areas of philosophy and psychology.
The show, “Man Up: Masculinity for the Intelligent Man,” is David’s way of helping as many people as possible enjoy empowering and fulfilling lives, while contributing to the global understanding of masculinity in modern times. In the show, he takes your questions posed in The Man Up private Facebook group and answers based on his experience Coaching tens of thousands of students around the world for over a decade.
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David Tian, Ph.D.: Boom! Stop. I’m David Tian, Ph.D., and this video is a message to men about women today. Welcome to Man Up Episode 229.
Masculinity for the Intelligent Man. I’m David Tian, Ph.D., and this is Man Up!
Hi. I’m David Tian, Ph.D., and for over the past 11 years, I’ve been helping hundreds of thousands of people in other 87 countries attain success, happiness, and fulfillment in life and love. And welcome to Man Up Episode 229. This is a message to men, and it’s originally a response to private messages that I got in response to Episodes 10 and 11 of the DTPHD Podcast.
If you didn’t know we had the DTPHD Podcast going, now you know. Go check it out. It’s aimed at a different demographic. It’s something that’s more of a hobbyhorse for me. In the Man Up episodes, I’m responding to other people’s questions, so the topics are largely constrained by the questions I get. In the DTPHD Podcast, it’s a lot more about what we want to talk about, what I want to talk about, and my frequent guest, Henry Chong, what he wants to talk about as well.
In Episode 10 of the DTPHD Podcast, I did a solo podcast in response to a reader/hater. He had Red Pill undertones, overtones, and the Men Go Their Own Way movement, MGTOW movement. And then Episode 11 was about masculine-feminine polarity. So, we got a bunch of different messages and comments based off those two episodes, and I decided that the Man Up series is a better place to deal specifically with masculinity issues, obviously. So, I’m making this one for those guys.
I’m going to set aside Red Pill specifically, because when I went back and took a look at what’s counted as Red Pill now, it’s very contentious. There isn’t a very easily agreed upon definition of what Red Pill is. So instead, I’ll be addressing the MGTOW movement and a little bit of why I know of Red Pill, or what I know about Red Pill. I’ll get into MGTOW and I’ll be going off here on the Wikipedia entry since that’s easily accessible to everyone.
So just in case you don’t know what Men Going Their Own Way movement is or the Red Pill movement, I discovered that a lot of my friends, even those who work in personal development, helping men, don’t know that these things exist. I’m based out here in Asia. I’m right now in Bangkok, beautiful skyline behind me. The sun is setting. We have our own culture going on here. Even those who speak English, we are quite largely insulated from the kind of weird stuff that’s going on around right now in pop culture, especially in America, so they didn’t know about this.
So in case you’re watching this, you don’t know what that is, let me just read out so we’re all on the same page what the generally accepted definition of the MGTOW, this is such a long acronym. MGTOW, I’ve heard Steve Mayeda refer to it as so I’ll go with that, MGTOW. Okay, the MGTOW stands for Men Going Their Own Way, and it uses the word gynocentric to describe conditions that favor women to the detriment of men and are opposed to such circumstances.
MGTOW believes that there is a systemic, gynocentric bias against men, including double standards in gender roles, bias against men in family courts, lack of concern for men falsely accused of rape, and lack of consequences for their accusers. According to the columnist Martin Daubney, members of the MGTOW community believe that legal and romantic entanglements with women fail a cost-benefit analysis and risk benefit analysis.
In Psychology Today, MGTOW is described as ‘guys who have been frustrated and punished to the point that they see no further incentive to relate to dating and they focus on making themselves happy’. Somebody else says MGTOW self-identifies discontent, because they see women as hypergamous and manipulative. There are different levels of MGTOW. Some of them have many short-term casual relationships, for some, celibacy is also an option. And there’s a term called ‘going monk’ for those who choose celibacy over sex and relationships, and some embrace maintaining their virginity.
So we’re on the same page as far as that goes. I just wanted to put this out there that it seems like that people who follow this movement also find resonance with the material that I’ve been putting out. I can see why. I just speak as much truth as I know, and just try to do my best with that. A lot of this truth is just the facts, as I understand them, of how things are in the world right now. So, I want to put this out there that I’m not against the MGTOW movement, per se.
I completely understand and sympathize with their choice. It’s a little dark. Let me see if this helps. One side of my face is now illuminated. So, I totally understand their choice. And if I were still living in America or Canada and had no choice but to live there, I don’t know. I might despair.
So here’s what happens. In the Man Up group, and in private messaging, and emails, and all kinds of other ways that people get in touch with me like Instagram, DMs, and so on, a lot of men in America have expressed incredible frustration and anger, bitterness, despair. Despair is probably the best word because they wouldn’t reach out to me in anger and bitterness if they didn’t want there to be a potential for love.
But they feel like they’re getting screwed over, and they’ve been screwed over, and are still getting screwed over, and they’re afraid of getting in relationships with females, women, in America specifically, but I suppose this also applies to the UK. I know that. Most of it’s from America though, America and Canada, these sorts of things where they say, “Don’t you realize just how evil women are, and that they’re very emotional, and they’re not logical, and hypergamy is a bad thing?” Which I totally agree.
And they’re like, “You say it’s enlightened to embrace promiscuous women, so are you saying we should just roll over and take it?” I just want to make that clear: no, I don’t think so. Now, my face is too red so let me turn this thing off. No, I don’t think so at all, and I totally understand the motivation here. The thing is, I just want to put that out there, that if it’s true, what we’re saying is true — and if you want to know what my view is on masculinity and femininity, and the relationship between them, go check out the DTPHD Podcast Episode 11 that I did with Henry Chong. We went in quite a bit of detail on that, but of course, I have a whole other course on this, Masculine Mastery if you want to get into even more detail on it.
Part of the thesis or one of the premises is that a person who is feminine at her core, that is she’s most comfortable in her feminine energy, would not be ultimately satisfied with the outcome of this radical feminism. There’s a lot of excesses. I’m going to come down and say on the side of feeling sympathy for Aziz Ansari and I think that went too far. You just kind of screwed up and had bad game, right? But they’re vilifying him and there’s no recourse to it. You just destroy somebody’s reputation just based on hearsay and gossip and all of this.
But of course, there’s a lot of very well-founded accusations. It’s very messy and it’s not black and white, but I think that there definitely are, in America, excesses that is taken to a great extent, really, too far. It’s all wrapped up in this post-modern liberalism that is just ridiculous. Even now, I still get email notifications for new academic articles that come out every week or so, and the abstract are just pathetic. They’re the sort of things that a senior undergrad or lower-level graduate student, or poorly supervised graduate student would put out; just all of this post-modern theory with no empirical original work or anything like that.
Anyway, I despair over that. I’m glad I’m out of academia. It’s a shitshow over there and it will probably go down and crumble, most of it, 80% to 90% of it in the humanities and the social sciences — some of the social science — in the next 5 to 10 years. On the long side, maybe 20, but definitely I would say it’s a good chance within 10 years.
But that’s not much consolation for guys now. 10 years later, this 35 year old will be 45. He wants to date now. He wants to find a woman now who would return his love. These guys who are writing to me are actually love bugs. That is, they actually want love. They’re not just out to fuck. Because if they’re just out to fuck, they would be rejoicing right now.
Because basically, what the females are asking for, women, these feminist women are asking for is to be treated like men. And if all you wanted was sex, you should be really happy. Because basically, they’re just saying, “Look, I just want to hook up. I don’t want you to hold the door open for me. I don’t want you to treat me any different, and let’s just have sex.” And if that’s what all of these guys wanted, then they would rejoice.
The thing is, all of these guys who are disenfranchised with this whole thing, from this whole thing, are pissed because that’s not what they want. They actually want love. They actually want that connection, and that’s the irony. Now, what I’m going to tell the guys is, the premise is, if they are truly feminine women, that they’re just brainwashed into being feminists, they’re definitely those who really, really are full-on radical feminists. Leave them alone.
But there are some women that would be otherwise have been good people and people of common sense, but instead they bought into this. You should leave them to it. In other words, if it’s true that a feminine woman would not be satisfied, fulfilled, ultimately, leading a short-term mating strategy in the long-run, like for 10 years going for a short-term mating strategy of hooking up and taking advantage of every guy she can.
The good ones will be unsatisfied with that, and you’ll feel the backlash. There should be a backlash at some point. Because if the theory is right, the theory is most females are feminine at their core just like most males are masculine at their core. If they deny that feminine energy, they should shrivel up and be unfulfilled. They’re not going to want to pursue the short-term mating strategies anymore.
The more extreme MGTOW and Red Pill guys are on the side of like all females throughout history have always been these evil parasites. Okay, well, if you’re going to start with that premise, you know. But there are some people, just like there are some men who are nasty narcissists, and some men who are manipulative, and some set of men who are players and just want sex and are just out for themselves, there are also women like that.
It would be like women saying ‘all men are the same.’ That’s was basically these dudes are doing, they’re saying, ‘all women are the same.’ It’s just ridiculous. As a man, if you’re watching this, I know 90% of you watching this are men, you don’t want to be painted with the same brush as all the other dudes. You think you’re different. You could actually change as well. Keep that in mind.
What should happen is, if this plays out, women will be unsatisfied with that mating world. So I’ll give an example. I referenced this in an earlier thing. I can’t remember where, but Black Mirror Season 4 Episode 4. There is an episode on dating, and they get a match on their phone and they’re told to go to this restaurant and they’re told what their match is. When they both swipe on this app, the app tells them how long they have for the relationship.
There’s some weird reason for them not being able to continue seeing each other after the expiry date on that app relationship and so on. It’s hard to break the app. You have to stay in that relationship. Anyway, the main woman character is looking for love as is the main male character. The problem is, the computer keeps giving her these short-term dating relationships, like 48 hours, 72 hours. What that does is, she’s just hooking up with dudes every two days; a new dude having sex with her, and then after two days, she gets a new match and meets another dude.
You see her in that episode after like screwing six different dudes in a couple of weeks feeling really empty inside. They show her just sort of like, “I don’t want to do this. This sucks.” And thinking about, “How do I get out of this whole thing?” But then there’s these penalties that are like jail time if you try to escape or something. Anyways, she’s basically confined to be a prostitute. The app tells her who to fuck for 48 or 72 hours. She doesn’t even get paid, but that’s the future. That’s the future of, if you let it play out, MGTOW and Red Pill guys, if you let this toxic mating culture happening and mostly like it’s concentrated in the US, if you just let it play out, feminine women will be hurt the most. They should be the ones who should resist this and push back on it.
Men can’t push back on this. The more you push back on this, the more you feed it. You should just speed it up. Let them pursue their short-term mating strategies, and yes, for 10 years, there will be a generation of women who are going to be ruined and are going to look back on their lives and be really pissed that they took that wrong route. You, as men, you’re going to have a really tough time for at least three years, maybe 3 to 10 years, and you’re just going to have lots of sex if you want because, hey, empowerment for women, they want to be treated equally, great.
But of course, you have to let them chase you. There are all of these guys like, “Oh, that’s not fair. I’m not good-looking.” Well then, you can get that taken care of. That stuff about game, about fashion, about your fitness, that’s all within your control. You can make yourself more attractive. That’s easy. There’s tons of guys in the internet who do that, and I do that as well in some of my old courses. It’s easy to make yourself more sexually attractive. It’s much harder to find a mate who is a person of good character, and integrity, and loyalty, and honesty. That’s the hard part. Just hooking up is relatively easy. You just got to do the work but it’s in your control.
Anyway, let it play out. I do sympathize with those guys who are already on the older end of the spectrum, they want to settle down and have kids, but I don’t know. The only good news I can say is take care of your body and your health. As a dude, you can still have kids five years later as an older guy, so take care of your health. But yeah, I mean, the more you push back on it, the harder it’s going to be for you.
So, one other thing I want to end off with before the sun sets is that it shouldn’t be easy to find your life mate. I plan to do this in DTPHD Podcast but I’ll just end off with that here. There are all of these guys that act as if they have a right to have a mate. No, you don’t. It should be hard. Because think about it: If you live until you’re 80 and if you’re like 30 now, if you don’t get into an accident or something, you might live until you’re 80. The life expectancy keeps going up and up.
Anyway, look, you have 50 years left. If you find that woman now, or this year, or next year, and you stay together until you die, which is the point of being in a committed relationship, and you build a family, you have grandkids together, and all the whole thing, and you find happiness, and fulfillment, and all that stuff, which is the promise of that is, that’s 50 years.
And you’re going to be spending more years with this human being than you have been living. On top of that, she’s going to be your number one peer group person. Because when you raise a family together, you’ll be spending the most time together, if you live together, sleep together, and all of that stuff.
So, why would you think it’d be easy to find that person? If you were a company and your company needed to find the CEO, do you think that it would be easy? It’s your whole life. There are 7.8 billion people in this world. It shouldn’t be easy to find that one and you should be really picky. Even if it was like — you’re looking for 1 in a million, right? Well, there’s still a lot of people left. There’s still a lot of women left out of the 7.8 billion, even if it was just 1 out of a million.
And it shouldn’t be easy. And maybe, if you want to find one now and you don’t want to wait the 5 or 10 years for the pop culture to play out, then you should consider going to a place that doesn’t have this toxic feminism. I live in an area, a whole region, that largely doesn’t suffer from that kind of weird, messed up thinking. I try to spend as little time as possible right now in America, for many reasons. I wouldn’t even go back to North America ever if it weren’t for the fact that I have family out there, and maybe I’ll go in for a training.
But let’s say the training is three days or five days, I’ll fly in the day before and fly out the last day. It’s just a toxic culture there in many ways. So if you’re despairing because there’s no one in your hamlet, in your town, in your village, in your county of 3,000 people, there are no women there who aren’t predators, and promiscuous, or whatever, without character… Well, it’s 3,000 people.
Go to a city of 10 million. The places in America are really small. Besides New York and the California area, the next biggest city is like Chicago with 3-4 million. That’s like a small city in China. I’m out here in Bangkok right now. There’s a lot of people here, and all the major cities here, there’s 20 million people in Tokyo. Just open your mind and try different places.
But yes, I totally understand your despair about Western women, about Western mating culture, and I do agree that it’s toxic, and I totally understand that you would reject the whole thing. But I’m just saying, let it play out. Let it speed up a bit, in fact. You can speed that up. Let these feminine women actually try to pursue a masculine strategy and feel unfulfilled. You want to help them speed that up.
Because the more feminine women who actually feel unsatisfied by this masculine culture that they’re forced to take on, this masculine energy that they’re forced to put on, the quicker they will have that backlash, and only they can stand up for it and demand change. Otherwise, you’re just going to always be painted as this horrible person, this horrible aggressor. Let it play out.
It’s going to play out. You might want to speed it up. If you don’t want to wait, then try other places in the world. They’re not all lost to this bullshit. Anyway, there you go. I hope I don’t see a whole lot of you out here in Asia. I like it here. All right, so David Tian, signing out. Join the private Man Up Facebook group where you can interact with other guys there. There’s almost 23,000 now, and it’s a very good group.
So, join the group. Click the link. Join the group and check out the DTPHD Podcast as well. David Tian, signing out. Man Up!