Keynotes • February 6, 2018
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The Achiever, Pleaser, Rebel, Recluse Neurotic Relationship Strategies
David Tian Ph.D. identifies who is the fixer and the predator in a relationship.
David Tian Ph.D. discusses the characteristics of a rebel in a relationship.
David Tian Ph.D. points out what we should definitely consider first before entering marriage.
An acquired predator is different from a pure predator, David Tian Ph.D. notes down the differences.
In this talk, David Tian Ph.D. shares how living a minimalist life can help us break away from our addictions.
Okay, welcome back. We’re continuing, well, finishing off the section on narcissism, narcissistic co-dependents and how co-dependents are basically narcissists and so on. And so far, this whole time, we’ve still just been focusing on the problem, understanding the problem. I haven’t yet started talking about the solution very much. I did mention self-awareness and self-acceptance, but we’re just getting clear on the problem. Once you get clear on the problem, the solution is a lot more straightforward, though obviously there’s a lot more to say about that as well. And we’ve been focusing largely on the fixer, on the compensator, the white knight, the person who took the moving towards coping strategy to get love and affection.
So, now, we’re going to look at that dynamic between the fixer and the predator. In other words, what the aspiring pick-up artist and the hot girl who would be naturally attracted to him in that state, being the narcissist that he is. Who would he attract? Would an emotionally secure person be sexually attracted to somebody like that, an aspiring pick-up artist who has spent a lot of time, not just the guy — like, again, there’s that first option, the guy who gets it very easily and doesn’t need to spend more than a couple of weeks learning some of these systems and things, methods, and then just applying them. But I mean the vast majority of men, who, if they weren’t good with women naturally, they had to learn it. That process of learning it was more arduous.
It included hundreds, and probably almost a thousand or more, approaches before the approach anxiety went away and they had that effortless, natural ability or skill set. That whole time when he’s getting those thousands of approaches under his belt is a process of creating a new false self that he hopes is actually his true self. That’s just a quick recap. But also, the dynamic now is what we’re going to look at. The fixer and the predator are drawn to each other because they’re actually complementary in their dysfunctions.
The fixer blames himself for things that go wrong, especially in a relationship, whereas the predator is used to blaming others. They’re a great match, you see. They’ll generally have chemistry. Fixers love to give without taking. Predators love to take without giving. Fixers feel like they don’t have a right to say what they feel. That’s part of the reason why they go blank. They don’t have anything else to say except what they’re feeling at the moment. In fact, many of the times, they’re not even aware of what they’re feeling. They’re just literally frozen.
They don’t feel like they have a right to speak their mind and they become passive-aggressive. They have trouble with assertiveness and all kinds of other things. So anyway, fixers feel like they don’t have a right to say what they feel, while predators feel entitled to say whatever the fuck they feel like whenever the fuck they want. That’s very sexy, isn’t it? You’ll find this dynamic repeated, that the nice guy, aspiring pick-up artist, will generally want to be with a woman like that who doesn’t give a fuck and makes him feel very free and liberated. And because it’s actually a part of himself he’s disowned.
They’re obviously a good match because he doesn’t feel like he can say anything, really. Fixers have too much of a conscience and are always thinking of other people in a relationship. Whereas predators have no conscience and are always thinking of themselves in relationships. By the way, during the break, we’ve been filming this over two days, and between all of these recordings, we’ve been doing a lot of talking about you guys here and working with you. It feels like we’ve been spending a lot more time on this than we actually have on the recording.
One of the things that came up was: Can you speak more about the rebel alternative or the option? The thing about the rebel option — is this a good time to talk about that? Yeah, it’s a good time. Taking small excursus on the rebel option. The rebel actually be the predator, except that if he’s not a pick-up artist, or if he’s not good with women, he’s actually a poor predator. So, in relationships, that guy who took the rebel option will largely be taking advantage of the girls that he’s involved with, or he will always put his needs as the top priority. They have to cater to him.
There’s a lot of pick-up stuff that focuses on being the rebel. A lot of what — we’re going to get to that now, actually. The fixers who go to pick-up learn how to become predators. One thing they’re going to learn to do is to go hot and cold, it’s called push-pull. They learn cocky-funny which is another version of push-pull, hot and cold, cockette, okay, is the classical name for that style. Girls do that naturally. Sort of like in their whole monthly rhythm, it’s already in there, hot and cold, and the drama thing. So, guys learn how to create drama.
They won’t call it that, but basically that’s what you do when you push-pull. You create drama, and that makes a girl really interested and hooks her. All drama hooks human beings, by the way and you don’t want a life with no drama. That’s also called passion, okay? But when it’s good, so you got to understand where the drama comes from, instead of just avoiding drama entirely. The guys who avoided drama entirely, I know guys like that. They either have no relationship or no relationship where there’s love. They might have a fuck buddy or something, or they get a wife who is far below what they would’ve showed off and then they try to keep that on the down-low and not less us know how ugly or dowdy their wife is.
The reason why he has that wife is because she’s easily controlled because he’s a predator. He’s learned to do that. Here’s some examples of rebel thinking: reward good behavior, punish bad behavior. They take the punishing bad behavior as really punishing. Well, obviously — and always try to be in the one up. I’ve been guilty of actually teaching these things. They actually strengthen the rebel and his cause, have shit going on that’s not about her and don’t compromise and meet her on what she wants. Make her come to you. These are good tactics for picking up chicks. These are good seduction tactics.
But what they do is they just strengthen the rebel in his own neurosis and it moves him further away from real connection. I have known rebels right now who are in relationships and the woman has to be basically a nurse/caretaker type of figure. She’s got to basically be his mother and really understanding. You could be a rebel and still be a good person. I don’t want to paint them as all predators, but the predator is an extreme rebel.
But you can have a rebel, and the rebel often, throughout his life, the rebel who is a good person, would be looking for escape. This guy usually would be counter-cultural. Maybe he’s done some drugs, some alcohol. Maybe he has a criminal record. Maybe he’s gotten into some fights. These are ways of the rebel acting out his childhood coping strategy, to say ‘fuck you’ to the man, the real man, his dad or mother, or being a pimp. A lot of the criminals obviously took the rebel route.
They might have a criminal with a heart of gold but his coping strategy is preventing him from actually connecting with other people. But who would be a great wife to this guy, or you know, a great mate, would be a woman who is used to sacrificing. Who am I describing, this woman who is sacrificing? The fixer. In fact, the rebel is a predator and the fixer is going to be the girl. The rebels who suck with women, they’re generally just having to learn how to manipulate people better. It’s just a poor predator. And then you teach them how to manipulate people better and they get really good at that. Game will definitely come easier to the rebel than it would to a fixer or an achiever-pleaser, because it’s already sexy just to be the rebel.
And then what they’ll do is they’ll activate a lot of girls who have abandonment issues because of their normal pattern of being. The rebel dude won’t be very responsive over text message to her and will be very liberal at punishing. Whether that’s actively lashing out or disappearing. The rebel loves ghosting. It comes very easily for him. The rebel loves acting out as well. If he wants to show his temper, he can do that, too, and just not give a fuck. He can not give a fuck very easily. That’s a very attractive thing. That’ll hook people, co-dependents. Co-dependents will really pair well with this person. They can actually have a stable relationship if they’re aware of their coping strategies and they just don’t take them too far.
You get a well-meaning rebel in therapy, and then you get a well-meaning co-dependent in therapy, and they can have a relationship that is sustainable if the two of them realize that they shouldn’t exploit the other one too badly. The rebel knows he shouldn’t take advantage of the nurse caretaker wife too much, and the nurse caretaker wife also has a ton of patience for the rebel and knows that he’s just doing this because he’s been hurt by dad or mom. She doesn’t take it personally and she lets him cool down. When he cools down, they can make love together again and they just go back to normal status. This can actually work, but it takes two very mature people and they have to basically be so secure that in fact they only activate their rebel strategies or co-dependent strategies under great duress.
That can be as they get more and more mature, that’ll be less and less. But if you’re just a full-on rebel and you’re not even aware of any of this stuff, forget it, you’ll destroy every relationship you’re in. The same goes to the co-dependent, you’ll destroy it the opposite way. The rebel will just basically totally neglect the wife over time and take advantage of her time and effort, take it for granted and put himself first. “My work comes first, your needs are not as important. My needs come first.” That will just obviously, over time — unless she’s a true victim, unless she’s victim to the core. Eventually, you will lose all respect for her if you’re the rebel and you’ll probably act out if you get some free time and go fuck some other strange stuff instead of her, and then she will go find the Woman Up group and post about how to get him back in.
The rebel generally won’t give a fuck until she finally gets a new guy and then he’s broken up because now his hold over her is gone. He doesn’t feel so up anymore, now he comes to the group defeated because he lost the game. It’s dangerous being a rebel even though you get lots of perks, sex, and other things more easily. Your own money — prioritizing your career, prioritizing yourself. One thing that’ll happen is, and I might as well get into it now, is the guys who find pick-up can be rebels, but more often they are white knights with caretaker values being taken advantage of, or co-dependent, or guys who chronically put women on pedestal, or guys who have enmeshment issues with their mothers, or guys with fathers who are weak, or distant, or narcissistic themselves. Those are all very different, by the way: a weak father, a distant father, a narcissistic father, but they’re all going to basically end up — you’re all going to create a boy who has connection issues, vulnerability issues.
Or guys who grew up as parentified children, that’s like helicopter parents who didn’t let them fall and became over-precious with them. In general, the guys who have low self-esteem. They had a faulty coping strategy that required them to surrender their own needs and their own emotions and accept as true that they need to meet the needs of another person to feel happiness themselves. When they discover pick-up and game, it’s like, “Woohoo! It’s possible!” That’s right. So, what happens is the pick-up, the game, covers over the symptoms of the fixer by overcompensating as a predator.
He goes from guy who keeps getting taken advantage of, like nice guy, he’s kind of ashamed of his thoughts and so on, and he’s doing things over the whole other way and he learns how to be the rebel. We literally make you a bad boy. I love this tattoo, by the way. It’s my dad’s writing. I love it. But all of this, this is stuff you’ve never ever seen me do when I was whatever, before I discovered game, 15 years ago. Everything that I am right now is a mixture that I would never have spoken like this, I don’t think. It’s hard to remember how long — that was a long time ago. But then again, I am a son of a preacher, so this is sort of like preaching, right? So, I’m very comfortable with this sort of thing.
What’ll happen is, as you get better with game, you’re going to learn how to be a bad boy, but a bad boy with heart. This is very rare, actually. You go in there, you’re sexy, you don’t give a fuck. You look hot. You’re taking care of your body or you’re very proud of your body. You don’t actually have to take care of your body. I’ve seen fat dudes who were smooth as fuck with girls as long as you’re proud of it. I said don’t give a fuck already, right? This is the stereotypical — oh, and he’s adventurous, he’s a risk-taker, he’s thinks quickly even though he may be taciturn. He might be one of those tough, silent guy bad boys. They would have to look really good to pull that off, actually. It’s a myth that the Clint Eastwood bad boy is actually really sexually attractive.
If he’s hot, it’s hot. That’s just like a tautology, right? If he’s hot, he’s hot. But being the big buff silent guy rarely gets girls unless he’s really good-looking. He would’ve got them, I guess, if he was good-looking already. I guess it’s better to not speak at all than to have a nasty tonality. You get what I’m getting to, right? So, if you ended up talking like this and you’re this really big guy – it’s just like, you know, unless she wants a cute pet. There’s that superhero in Ragnarok, the stoned guy. You guys know what I’m talking about? Who has seen Ragnarok? You guys are cool. Ragnarok was great. You guys remember that guy’s name? No one remembers, right? The stoned guy? He’s like, “Yeah.” In other words, you have a really close connection with that guy.
Imagine the big huge guy with that voice, right? That’s not very sexy. But anyway, what happens is, these guys who aspire to learn game, they take on a new ideal. It’s not the ideal of self-sacrificing so I can get love. It’s a new ideal. They’re now learning new patterns of behavior and thought, patterns of behavior and thought that I’ve been guilty of teaching in the past and I have gone through myself several years of inculcating in myself and overlapping several more years of teaching it, which is the narcissistic ideal of the mythical alpha male, ‘the ultimate man’.
In fact, we even made a program called The Ultimate Man University. Remember that one? Oh god. The mythical alpha male, the ultra-man who always has a cocky-funny answer to anything. The guy with the arrogant swagger, the leader of men who makes women swoon with just a gaze, the guy who’s the life of the party, etc. We can keep describing this over and over. You just pull out any kind of sales stuff from any of these places.
Now, you want to be that guy. Who’s worked with Adam? Adam likes to say the guy that all girls want and every man wants to be or something like that. All guys want to be and all girls want. He even made it as a teacher. That guy. That’s a narcissistic ideal, right? It’s all just about me. “Finally! I am the man that all men want to be and all women want!” Like, doing the tits thing. I don’t know why I’m doing this. “Now I’m the big shit! Now I can be proud of myself.” And then basically, what they’ve done, is they’ve traded one narcissistic ideal for another. They switch faulty coping strategies.
Look, dudes, every slide I got to keep bringing it up to pick-up, being very aware of who I’m talking to here. Eventually, this will stop and I can’t wait for it to stop, but just in case you’re watching, this is the message to the pick-up boys, or the game guys, or the little boys still learning about how to do this. I say this — I guess that might’ve sounded pejorative, but I’ve been there, of course. You could’ve gotten girls by being your nerdy self. You could’ve gotten girls by being your fat self. You could’ve gotten girls by being — well, actually, it’s good for you to lose fat, so that’s a bad example.
You could’ve gotten girls by being your shy self. You could’ve gotten girls by being whatever the fuck you’re ashamed of and thought you could’ve have gotten girls by being it. You could’ve gotten that happiness that way. You could’ve learned fashion. That’s not, like, generally a false self issue. You could’ve dressed better. You could’ve become more fit, and that’s a good thing. This is just good health, could’ve gotten more energy and you could’ve stayed with your persona, your personality. At least the one that you came with. They can all be attractive.
Can they be attractive to the club chicks? Well, what I’m saying is, a lot of these club chicks are predators. Would you like to be attractive to a predator? In that case, just be a needy guy who has a lot of narcissistic things about him, then you’re a good victim and she’ll take you. She’s like a vampire will take a nice, big human with lots of blood to give. That’ll be you. But could Mark Zuckerberg be attractive without having to learn game? Could Bill Gates — would you want to change Bill Gates even though he talks kind of nerdy? I wouldn’t want to change any of these guys, and those are easy examples because I know you guys look up to people like this. Elon Musk, for instance, is geeky as fuck, but you could see he wants to be — If he had the time and the inclination, he could learn to pick up chicks.
And you’re thinking, they’re all rich, they don’t need to. Okay, guess what? What about any of these guys before they became rich, when they were teenagers? You know, Elon being bullied — I’m sure they were all bullied to some extent, all these computer nerds were. Taking that guy as a 14-year-old. I get dads. Now I’ve been working in the field so long that the guys that I used to work with are now dads and telling me, “I’m so proud of the things I’ve done here, because now I can teach my kid how to text this girl.” You know, because his son is 14 now. And I said, “Well, luckily, I’m still in the field so I can share things like this.”
I said, “What did you tell him to text?” And he’s like, “Well, this thing.” He was going to text, but that was like, actually, going to be revealing — So instead, “Text this thing. It’s fun. It’s cheeky.” Basically, it’s a very superficial text that’s just fun Playboy guy, right? So I’m like, “Yeah, that’ll work, but what you’re teaching is his true self is not attractive. His true self is not sexually attractive.”
That’s what we all learned. Instead of making the nerdy boy more confident, instead of making the fat boy more confident, instead of making the short guy more confident, instead of making whatever insecurity that you happen to have and making you more confident, more proud of yourself, and not being ashamed of any part of you, not being ashamed, no shame, just putting it out there. Instead, thinking you have to change yourself, change your thoughts, change your beliefs, change your word, change your look, change everything.
And doing that because you think you will get girls, not because you want to get that, even if it doesn’t get you girls. There are a lot of things that you should learn: lose fat, gain muscle. Those are all nice things to have. Reduce your resting heart rate. Those are all great things. But if you’re doing that to get girls because you heard that girls like that and now you’re going to do it. Well then, what you’re doing is you’re going down the path of a narcissistic false self you’re putting on. Just make that clear. You’re switching faulty coping strategies.
One bad coping strategy was to kiss ass and please everybody in the hopes of getting love. That’s the nice guy friend zone. And he’ll get burned so bad he’ll finally go on the internet, learn some game, swing the other way and be an asshole. You know, that’s not going to be me. I never thought of myself as an asshole until I looked back in soberness and realized tacit approval where you’re seeing multiple women but you only tell when they ask you? That’s an asshole. Guess what? Every single pick-up coach that I’d ever known for four to five years were doing it like that. There were only one or two exceptions. These were older guys.
At that time, when I was in my mid-30s, they were already in their 40s. These are older guys and they’ve been around the block as I have now, and now I have the courage and I don’t give a fuck. And that’s a good thing if you don’t want to be in it because it’ll cause more drama down the road. You know, when you’re a mid-30s guy, you don’t understand any of that. You just started out so you’re like, “Okay, everyone else is doing tacit approval. I’ll do it” but you’re an asshole. I was an asshole. I shouldn’t have done those things looking back. They caused a lot of drama.
But again, obstacles away. So, now I learned the lesson. Passing it on to you, I don’t know if you want to go through all that. Maybe obstacle’s the way for you, too. But you can make my obstacle your way, how about that? So, they traded the faulty strategy of the pleaser to take on the faulty coping strategy of the narcissist. And now, the PUA journey is all about pursuing narcissistic goals to become a narcissistic ideal and then to avoid narcissistic injury. The narcissistic goals of getting every girl that you want and getting all the guys to respect you. That’s like textbook narcissistic goals.
I’m talking about not just like ah, fun, narcissism like they use on the milennials. Ah, they’re all narcissists. I mean narcissistic personality disorder as defined in the DSM-5 classification. This is serious stuff. And if you’re a natural narcissist, you’re probably very dangerous to the people that you know and possibly to society. And then you’re trying to go for this narcissistic ideal which I had described earlier and you’re trying to avoid narcissistic injury. And then when you get it, like being rejected, being dumped, being cheated on, being betrayed by, being laughed at, being shamed — well, you interpret it as shame in some way. All of those things are death to the pick-up artist.
But what happens is they don’t know any of this, of course. I didn’t know any of this when I embarked on this journey. What happens is the compensating nice guy compensates with narcissistic patterns which is all what PUA is all about. Game is teaching you how to be a narcissist: narcissistic thoughts, behaviors, principles, and putting yourself first, not giving a fuck, all that stuff, right? The turn of the PUA is where they begin to prey with self-loathing on female fixers. I hinted at this earlier. What’ll happen is over time, you’re going to date these nice girls. To you, they’re nice, 6’s and 7’s. When you’re starting out, you know, because you’re not able to get the 9’s and 10’s yet, your 9’s and 10’s.
And just even rating women is something that only narcissists do. But anyway, preying, and then when you do it, you have self-loathing unconsciously. That’s what you’re projecting or interjecting. Actually, that’s what you’re feeling on the female fixers. The whole time you’re searching for the females that would excite you, that you consider to be 9’s and 10’s. However, what you consider to be 9’s and 10’s that will really get you excited… And again, remember, the conscious and the unconscious mind come apart, so I just told that story about the dating coaches looking at two women, one who is the good girl, one who is the bad girl, and he finds himself inexorably drawn to the bad girl.
This is the search for that female bad girl, the wild girl, the one who is different from you. This will almost always turn out to be some kind of predator. The only exception would be somebody like me, a female version of me, who in other words was a ‘good person’. I think I’m a good person, a good heart, took on various coping strategies, one of which was to be a club rat, a wild child, in my case, a bad boy of some kind. And then — but that was a relatively recent false self given all the other false selves in my life. So, I can retire that one. I can retire the bad boy.
If you meet a woman — well, almost all the wild girls are to, some extent, all the bad girls, are to some extent, a false persona. But if she’s inhabiting that as if it were her true self, then there’s no way out of that right now. But if you meet a girl who triggers that reaction in you as a compensating fixer, she’s the hot, wild one, sort of like the manic pixie dream girl that I’m not going to cover here with you guys, but I’ve covered that in other places.
She’s like exciting you, but she’s gone through therapy. She knows that she attracts guys like you. She knows why she attracts guys like you because you’re a fucking fixer and she feels sorry for you. She feels empathy for you, and she’s on her own journey of discovery. She’s no longer fully the manic pixie dream girl anymore. She’s now becoming more mature, but she can be the manic pixie dream girl and she activates that enough in you that you get really excited. That’s how it could happen and actually be a mature relationship.
Otherwise, no. All of the girls you get attracted to who you consider to be 9’s and 10’s in personality will be predators. So, question? The whole time, I’ve just been seeing this in this corner of the room. Questions? Okay, maybe you’re just thinking about it. Oh, yeah?
AUDIENCE: Does that mean if you’re kind of being attracted to your neurosis or your white knight for example, there’s no actually point in seeing the red flags through interaction, because inevitably, emotionally, you’re going to be attracted to the wrong type of girl anyways until you fix it, fix yourself internally?
David Tian: Yeah. Well, the question is, should you bother paying attention to red flags when you know that you’re fucked up and you haven’t done any work on yourself? And then you find this out, so then every girl that you find chemistry with, you should just run from? That’s a rare case. As soon as you find this out, you’re already beginning the path of working on yourself. As you go through therapy, as you go through more advanced courses, and you develop and mature, it’s a process. It’s not black and white. It’s not binary.
So then you start off compensating, but you’re working on it. It takes time because sometimes things trigger you and you go back to it. You don’t know if what you’re seeing is a reaction to your own neurosis or not. You’ll never know. Maybe you ran into the case where — I’ll give you an example. At the time that I met my wife, I was — well, I still am — travelling all the time. I don’t have a residence. When we were dating, I don’t spend more than three weeks in any country. That made it very easy for me to have casual relationships. But it also meant that it would trigger her abandonment issues from her father, which she had. Of course, I didn’t know that right then but I very quickly found out and that made a lot of sense. This was a familiar feeling with her, so repetition compulsion now kicks in.
What would happen is if I was a real bad boy, I would never settle down. I’d continue to date multiple women. I’d just do all of the things that she fears, but she’s attracted to me because, well, I am the bad boy, right? Makes sense? You following so far? Great. But fortunately for her, I was going through therapy and I’m more mature now. So, while I look like a bad boy, while my lifestyle’s a bad boy, I actually give a shit. I actually prioritize my highest need, love, and used to be significance. Lucky for her, she didn’t meet me seven years ago. Of course, she would’ve been a lot younger and probably would’ve been illegal, but anyways…
She’s lucky. I told her, “You’re so fucking lucky because you won the lottery in the sense of, like, how rare is it to find somebody who has been a professor of philosophy, before that a Christian missionary, and then went into pick-up, and then dated for a living, and then came out of that and is now a therapeutic coach who can then trigger for you all the bad boy stuff, all the clubbing stuff, can match you on your clubbing wildness, and all of the other nasty things that, you know, and has that history?” The only downside is I’m old. I’m 41 now. So, you know, I’m going to be the old dude at the primary school, which is what’s going to happen.
But everybody else seems to be putting off having kids too, so maybe I’ll be alright. That would be — you know, so she’s got to keep it up. Maybe it’s somebody like that. Like I said, and I want to do a whole podcast where all I do is repeat the same phrase, basically the same message over and over. Why the fuck do you think it would be easy to find your wife? That’s pretty good, right? Nice and get your attention. You all think it should be easy for you to attract a girl. If you are emotionally healthy, you should be super picky. Your standards are too fucking low, not too high. Your standards are so low that all she’s got to do is have hot tits, a hot ass, a nice face and done. That’s easy when you work at a model agency, or you work at a night club or something.
Beauty is common. Maybe for you guys or for the person watching, you’re not because you’re not surrounded by it. But it is. Just like people who aren’t that intelligent. They keep looking for intelligent women or not educated. Men who aren’t that educated generally aren’t looking for educated women as much, but I get it on the pre-program survey and they say, “Intelligent women.” If you just want an intelligent woman, you know how easy that is? Just go to fucking Harvard campus. Go to Boston. It’s got the most university campuses in the square radius.
I’ve spent all of my adult life in fucking universities. I’m surrounded by people who are just as smart as me, if not smarter. Actually, most of my friends are smarter than me, so I never thought that it was rare to find intelligence, but that’s because I happened to live in university campuses. If you happen to live or work in a model agency, you will never think that beauty is rare. You’ll always be thinking, “Jeez, every year, there’s new beautiful women coming up,” and now they keep getting — you know, they scout them when they’re 14 years old. It’s common.
In fact, if you’re mature, you should be so picky that if you’re looking for one in a million, we’re still talking about thousands of women that you could find for yourself that are one in a million for you. Why on earth would you think it would be easy to find your soul mate, like, the one woman that you’re going to partner with for life and actually produce other human beings out of? That’s a big deal. You should think about that more carefully than a business partnership, because if you break it, then you didn’t do the legal work. She gets half of your assets, of your entire life, not just the business.
People do due diligence when they enter a business partnership, or even just an investment of 10% into something. They don’t even think twice about a marriage. It’s just ridiculous. But like, the same with relationships. Why? It would be better for you, again, to lose the girl by being your true self than to get the girl by being your false self. It’s better for you in the long run, your psychological health, and well-being, and fulfillment, and happiness. Now, that’s why I keep thinking. I keep emphasizing, it would be best for you to split apart the sex drive and the ego stroke. Because a lot of guys, they confuse them, and maybe they’re just horny. They haven’t had sex with a real female, something besides their hand, in years.
And so, you know, this is a decent looking girl. I don’t know, she’s willing to have sex. She’s willing to have sex, so I’ll have sex with her. And now she wants to meet again, so I meet again. And then she wants to meet again the next week, so I get nothing else going on. I try to say no because I learned that pick-up is good, so I go out on a Friday and Saturday and I didn’t get any pussy. So on Sunday she’s like, “Want to meet?” And we meet, and then that happens and he keeps striking out Friday and Saturday. And Sunday, she’s still willing. You keep that up for two months, and now he’s in a relationship.
And then fast forward a year and a half and the whole thing falls apart because the standards were too low. It would’ve been better for him to say no to the sex because he confused it. There’s nothing wrong with the sex. I would wish that there were another alternative for him to find the sexual gratification that’s separate from the ego. And there is, it’s called the oldest profession in history. But, you know, I understand all the — I kind of understand all the moralism, especially if you have religious beliefs. But from an evolutionary perspective, well, maybe you just need to go to a more liberal place and find more liberal women who just want other fuck buddies themselves. That’s happening at a very quick rate. More and more women are taking on male mating strategies.
So back to it, right? So, acquired predators — and that’s now the pick-up artist. He’s now an acquired predator. He learns to be a predator. He learns to trigger these things in other people. Who reacts to that? Two types: natural predators, because they smell bigger prey, and female fixers. The acquired predator needs someone more narcissistic to feel fulfilled and to feel chemistry. They need someone more narcissistic, more selfish, and more emotionally manipulative than themselves. What he’s really used to is the fixer, but he’s compensating by pretending to be a narcissist predator. He’s actually a narcissist through and through, but he’s trying to be a predator.
When they were fixers, it was easy to find people more selfish than themselves. Right? Because everybody was taken from them. It was easy for them to find chemistry at all different levels of narcissism, from the mild to the pure. But now, acquired predators are higher up the predatory ladder themselves. They’re higher up the food chain. So, the only people who can now generate chemistry for them are pure predators, natural predators, the more dangerous ones.
If you have not yet encountered cluster B personality disorders, if you have not yet encountered female psychopaths — Well, if you hang around in clubs long enough, you will. You probably wouldn’t even know that you are, and then you’ll get really hurt, and then you’ll figure it out. Again, if you’re a total newbie, just go to the noob stuff and then come back two years later. What’s the difference between an acquired versus pure predator?
An acquired predator, when he comes into a relationship with a pure predator will eventually crumble over time. The acquired predators eventually fall into a vicious cycle that is even worse than before. Here’s an example of how you can fall into the female predator’s trap. You might see this sometimes in the comments in Man Up. So, they’ll say, “Yeah, she’s a bitch.” Here’s an example. “The goal of the bitch is to dominate, control, and destroy a man’s finances, his mental health, his self-esteem, take half his resources, and to destroy his happiness. But it doesn’t matter, I banged her. Haha! Bang the bitch and drop her, pump and dump!” That’s the jock dude, you know, fat boy response, right?
In fact, he’s falling right into the trap of the pure predator. She doesn’t give a shit about giving you her pussy. You think that you got something from her that she cared about, her pussy. In fact, all she cared about from you was you thinking — was your admiration, your wanting to fuck her pussy. You thinking she’s a hot girl. That’s all that she cared about. And so, she’s going to be one of those people who’s not going to be really into the sex too much. But that’s the trap that a lot of you guys fall into. I tell them, “Don’t fuck your ex just because she wants to. You’re going to get attached again and get back into that cycle.”
And I tell dudes who tell the guy, “He’s got a crush on her.” She’ll never get into a relationship with him. She’ll never actually meet his needs emotionally that he has, which is funny because now in the modern world, the script has been flipped. Now, a lot of girls are taking advantage of guys for casual sex and the guys don’t want that. They want a committed relationship, which is, wow, what a change, it’s just 10/15 years. Anyway, the guy is like — there are all these jock dudes who are like, “Just bang her and leave. Bang the hoe and go.”
And I’m like, as soon as you stick your dick in there, you’ve already compromised yourself. If you have feelings for her in any way, because you actually got attached to her. She’s not just a prostitute to you, but you actually got attached to her. You’ve chosen her out of all these other girls, and you want to see her next Sunday. But she just doesn’t care about the sex. The sex to her is a throwaway. She’s not giving anything to you. She’s already taken from you, the narcissistic ego supply. That’s what she cares about.
The dominating, controlling, and destroying a man doesn’t come through taking sex from him. It comes from taking all of these other energies from him: his time, his effort, his mental space, his emotions. Did you have a question?
AUDIENCE: What defines these labels, like predator? What would be the characteristics?
David Tian: Oh, boy. I covered it all.
AUDIENCE: Versus someone who is not a predator?
David Tian: Yeah, I covered this earlier.
AUDIENCE: At the extreme end, what is it?
David Tian: At the extreme end, it’s a psychopath, and then less extreme might be some of the — the less extreme would be histrionic or sociopath. It depends on how you define sociopath. There’s actually a narcissistic personality disorder. So, when I say predator, I actually mean a mean narcissist. Now, there’s some narcissists who aren’t that mean yet because they’re not powerful. Those are the nice guys who are starting out in game. The narcissism is more important than predator. Predator is just a nice word that I use to wake up your imagination.
It’s just a nasty narcissist, versus a seemingly nice narcissist, a harmless narcissist. The harmless narcissist is the guy who begins game. It’s two sides of the same coin, the co-dependent and the narcissist. That’s why I kept saying, “Watch out when he learns some game. Stay away from that guy.” I spent all this time helping them out and then I create a beast, a monster. So, watch out. Watch out for Talented Mr. Ripley. You might have created a shark, because they were starting out already craving attention, admiration and approval. Now, they were harmless because they didn’t know how to get it. Now, you’ve shown them how to get it and now they’re predatory narcissists. That’s what game shows them; it gives them the tools to predate, to actually be predatory.
But they were always narcissists, the co-dependent. And the extreme version is a predator with no conscience. That would be the psychopath, so that the extreme, it’s a cluster B, like I’ve said before, DSM-5 classification on that. Okay, so PUA’s actually make it worse because PUA’s blame themselves for what goes wrong in interactions. They blame themselves far more than non-PUA’s. They even blame themselves a lot more than regular fixers.
So, when you’re a regular fixer, you’re like, something goes bad, and you’re like, “Oh, I guess you didn’t like me because that’s not for me.” When you’re a PUA fixer on the way to becoming a pure predator, you’re like, “What did I do wrong? How can I improve myself? What’s wrong with me that I have to change, David? Tell me so I can do it.” Oh, wow. Okay. PUA is a perfect exploitation device for compensatory narcissists. PUA’s blame themselves to a higher degree because they think every outcome in a social interaction should be under their control. Remember that myth I talked about earlier, the third myth. They think that the good interactions are solely the responsibility of the man.
They walk up to the girl, and they expect that they need to have something to say to impress her rather than hold him back and like, “Why aren’t you impressing me?” Like, to give you an example that’s trivial that’ll hopefully make you laugh and then that would jig your mind, give you insight, hopefully. We’ll see. I doubt it because I’m not very good at telling jokes. Who was it? I can’t even remember what it is. Oh, yeah, right. So, some people come up to me and they’re like, “David! What’s up?” And I fly around so much. And I’m like, “Oh, hey man!” And I’m like, “Do I remember this guy’s name?” Like, “Hey, yeah, right!” And then he’s like, “Girls will do this to me before. They’d be like — you don’t remember my name, do you?” I’m like, “Oh, yeah.”
And I was like — that was happening 10 years ago and I would feel bad for not remembering her name. Now, when that happens, I look at them like, “Nope. Don’t remember your name. What’s your name again?” They don’t want to tell me. That’s on them. They weren’t memorable. Get it? It’s not that I didn’t remember. It’s that if you were memorable, I would’ve remembered. Why don’t you feel bad for you? Why would you get mad at me? You weren’t memorable. When I go up to somebody and you don’t remember my name, I don’t go like, “You fucking dick.” That would be so narcissistic, wouldn’t it? That’s why I told you, when you go to the bouncer, don’t expect him to remember your fucking name. Say, “Hey, Ted. David, man. Good to see you again.”
Give it to them three days in a row. Don’t ever expect them to remember your name. Who the fuck are you? So, who the fuck are you? Here’s another thing, right? When you’re in a conversation and you can’t think of anything to say, why is it your fault? Here’s what a really cool guy does, here’s what a natural does. Let me trigger all of you compensatory narcissists who are still here, who have not yet understood a single word I’ve said, and I’ve seen this. It’s scary.
But if you haven’t understood this, I know not to open up to you and I know to keep you at arm’s distance because you cannot be trusted because you’re probably a nasty narcissist once you get the skills. So, let that sit. You can sit this drama happening in the PUA world over the years, all the infighting. It’s just pathetic because they’re all actually just narcissists. So, I’ll talk to you about this. Here’s how to get a girl to like you more. Here’s a technique that is very easy, that is fast, easy, effortless and simple. I’ll give it to you in a step-by-step format for free.
So, here’s the mindset shift. When you go blank in a conversation, you say, ‘entertain me’. Simple as that. You could say, “Say something.” Why the fuck is it your job to impress like a dancing monkey? What do you got? If you’re a normal human being and you sit down next to somebody who doesn’t look great, do you feel a lot of pressure to make conversation happen? Generally not, unless you need something from them like it’s your boss’s wife, you feel like you have to impress and whatever. Whatever, but that’s always in a weaker position.
But if it’s just another human being you don’t know in a bar who sits down and starts talking to you, some other dude, do you feel a lot of pressure? Now, there might be some people who do who generally have social anxiety. Great, now, that’s really obvious to you that that’s a therapy issue, right? If you’re like, “What do I say to this fat old ugly dude next to me?” Well, then you have self-worth issues. But it’s less obvious when it comes up only with women that you’re sexually attracted to. Then why is it your job? I’ll tell you why you believe that.
Why is it natural for you to think it’s your job? I’ve already told you about five times. Let it sink in now. Hopefully now — How fast? How fast? Okay. Why is it that you naturally think it’s your responsibility to hold down a conversation and to make it fun and interesting? Because you’re a fixer. Because you’re a pleaser. You’re a white knight. You’re all those other terms I could use to describe it. Makes sense, right? Great. This is what you’ve been doing since you were a child and you didn’t even know it. Why? Because you just thought that this was the norm. This is how you get mommy and daddy’s approval: you become a good kid.
Now, some of you are rebels but you just don’t know how to manipulate people very well. You’re just like that bad rebel who is like ‘fuck you’ and you don’t get anybody following you. So, you end up being the bit player in the game. Now, you learn how to manipulate people so now you can fuck around with people. Now, you probably don’t go blank very much in conversations, but sometimes you do because you have debilitating insecurities that you paper over and hide with rebel strategies that actually aren’t your dominant strategy and just doing that out of pain.
Anyways, so then you figure out pick up and you learn that as a technique. You say to them, “Say something.” You say, “Okay, your turn. Entertain me now.” Like, “Are you just a cute face or do you have anything going on in there?” And she’ll be like, “What?” And if you hold it down with the staring and you do not move, you’re just like — she’ll be like, “Well, I went to Phuket last week.” And you’re like, “Oh, interesting. Tell me about it.” And now you’re like, “See? I just gave away a little thing.” Now, the predator narcissist is going to use that as a manipulative tool to further take advantage of people, right?
So, I fed the beast and now it’s like this monster, out of control. What happens? Well, what’ll eventually happen is — and I’m not that worried about it because eventually he’s going to run into a pure predator if he gets good. I mean, some guys will never be able to do this tactic because they have so much inner conflict in their minds. But if they are able to pull it off, because maybe you were a rebel before, or maybe you just have a lot of conditioning, well, eventually, you’ll meet a natural pure predator. You can meet one by becoming a guy who blames himself even more than your average fixer for the interaction. And the PUA would attract the type of woman who blames others more than your average predator. That’s even less accountability.
If you blame yourself more than the average fixer — because the average fixer will be like, “Oh, I guess she’s not into me. Not for me.” And the PUA is like, “Shit. I got to go and write a field report so I can figure out what went wrong, so I can learn that skill set of whatever it is. Transitioning, or is it texting, where did it go wrong?” And he’s even more blaming himself than the average fixer. Who would he attract? The predator who blames others even more than the mild predator. Who is that? The natural pure predator.
Okay, so what do you do? Well, I’m going to leave you with “What do you do?” and then we’ll take a longer break. Self-awareness and self-acceptance, I’ve already covered that. Deep emotional awareness, that’s what you need to do. Deep emotional awareness. And awareness, just the inside itself takes you half the way — or maybe even more than half the way. So that’s why even though therapists think that educating the public, educating you on what’s happening won’t actually cure you, or heal you, or help you grow, the smart therapist realizes that just knowing this will at least get you to therapy; just knowing this will at least help you see that there is a way out. That’s what I’m trying to educate the public, that there actually is a way out.
The other thing was like, “If this is all true, how come we hadn’t heard about it?” Well, part of the reason is the profession doesn’t want to reveal it to you because part of them thinks it doesn’t help you. They think that you need to do the emotional work, which is true, but the cognitive understanding help a lot, especially if you’re an intellectual, if you use intellect and rationalizations, reasoning, as a way of coping with things. That’s me and most intellectuals.
And then self-awareness and self-acceptance, but then go deeper. How do you go deeper? You got to do the grief work. This is the first time I’ve mentioned that term. After the break, we’ll be starting on grief work and understanding what that is. And you’re going to go through a phase. You’re going to go through these phases of denial. Most of the people I meet are in denial. You can see throughout all of these videos, I struggle with the guys who are in denial, but that’s stage one, denial.
The second stage is anger. Once you start learning about what happened to you, you start to become angry. I’d like to see that. There are a lot of guys I work with on Skype one-on-one coaching who are afraid to show me their anger. And then I would recommend them for therapy but I’m not a therapist, so I poke at that raw wound and say, “Come on. Show me the hulk. Come on. Show me what you really feel.” And he’s holding it down. “No, you don’t want to know what I’m really feeling.” Otherwise, we’re just being fake. Unless you’re willing to be real, what’s the point? Like, you know they’re fake when as soon as they come on they start telling you how great life is. Like, you know, why are we on this call then? You got to get them to the point where they’ll show vulnerability.
But then they’re not willing to go and become vulnerable. The reason why is because they’re afraid of the feeling, the tidal wave of emotions that would erupt in them if they let go. The first emotion that will come out is going to be anger. That’s quickly followed by sadness and bargaining. Denial, anger, bargaining, leading eventually to depression. That’s good. Depression is an obstacle to the way. Well, obstacle that is the way. And then finally to acceptance, and then gratitude, and then growth. All the time, you’re growing anyway.
And then you’ve got to the whole time be cutting off behaviors and thoughts of both the predator and the fixer within you, to be aware of those, not to do those things. There’s a period in my life when I’m talking to somebody and I know I could just turn it on right now. But if I did, it would awaken that part of me that would not help me right now. So, no, I’m going to choose to be boring right now and see whether you could hold the conversation, bitch.
What do you got? Okay, this is really — you’re an empty vapid person right now. Let’s see, have you gone anywhere interesting recently? You know, versus screening questions, “Hey, where have you…” Totally different attitude, you start cutting off. And then of course, all of the typical player things, right? Like all the rebel behaviors. On top of this, here are some things you should be doing along the way: Meditation. Meditation is helpful to everybody without exception. When I make a school, I will have meditation for all the 14-years-old and up. They’ll have shorter bouts of 10 minutes or something.
By the way, if you’re just doing 7 and 10 minutes, come on, get to 20 at least. And then physiology. Pay very close attention to your body and the state of your body, including your physical health and everything. The sound of your voice, how you hold yourself, how you move, how you walk, everything. I highly recommend movement coaching if you can find that in your area. But no matter what, fitness and health, that’s a big trend now for most men. I don’t need to focus on that too much.
Trying to minimalize your life, a more minimalist life, to help yourself with more independence and breaking off binds to things. That’s going to be helpful for you psychologically. So, moving, that’s good. Not being tied down to a ton of physical possessions, that’s good. That’ll all help you transform and grow quicker. And then if you can do any understanding around addiction, understanding mood changes. The predator is addicted to narcissistic fuel, like narcissistic supply. The fixer is addicted to predators. These are all addictions. If you understand the psychology of addiction, you’ll understand what’s happening to you here in this dynamic of male-female mating and dating.
Okay, so some of the most common mistakes are that you don’t listen to what I’m saying. That’s the most common mistake. The other most common mistake is not listening to all of this — again. That’s the second most common mistake. The third most common mistake is not actually applying anything I tell you. That’s a horrible mistake, but we’re going to come to the next section where we’re going to be looking at: What do you do then? Understanding how to love yourself, understanding how to forgive yourself, how to forgive others, forgiveness is power, and starting to let go of the need to please and the need to achieve, or the need to flee for those who are rebels, or the need to hide for those who took the recluse route.
I’m going to end with a quote from Nelson Mandela: “Resentment is poisoning yourself, expecting the other person to die.” What a lot of guys are doing in trying to get that outcome is actually just poisoning themselves trying to get this other goal. That’s why we’re going to focus on forgiveness later on as well. We’re going to touch on that theme. Because in order for you to be naturally attractive — I don’t mean natural game, I mean naturally attractive in your true self. By the way, all true selves are naturally attractive just as all children before society gets them and parents start conditioning them. All children in their natural selves are attractive. Not sexually, hopefully, but charismatically attractive. It’s just magnetic watching them.
If you don’t like children, that says a lot about how you’ve been treating your inner child. I can predict a lot about you if that’s the case. I know people like that. I didn’t love little children or even little dogs when I was in my 20’s. I know what that’s like, to be so disciplined on yourself, to condition yourself because you don’t like the way that you would be naturally so you have to shape yourself into a way that’s acceptable primarily for the people that you want approval from: your parents, your teachers, the gatekeepers. But in order to grow, you’ve got to let go of all of that because holding onto it is poison.
Okay, see you in the next video.